Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Linesj Message-ID: <62611@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 17:59:34 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <62440@cup.portal.com> <62518@cup.portal.com> <62582@cup.portal.com> <+6fmdv@lynx.unm.edu> Lines: 4 Dear Cary: Thanks for adding some real adventure to this collection. I'm going to make it one of these years (posting from floppy disks that is). John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!bronze!indyvax.iupui.edu!tffreeba From: tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu Subject: Re: zeta reticuli Message-ID: <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Lines: 8 Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: indyvax.iupui.edu Organization: Indiana University Date: 22 Jul 92 21:31:12 -0500 To heck with how the Pleiadians ships work or how fast they go. HOW DID THEY EVOLVE SO DARN FAST? The Pleiades are bright young stars still within their nebular cocoon. They are along the order of millions of years old. It took life on Earth more than 4 billion years to evolve to the point where it could walk upright, talk, and dream silly dreams. Are the Pleidians child prodigies? Btw the first prokaryotes didn't evolve here until a billion years or so after the formation of Earth. Thomas Freebairn Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv1!watdragon.waterloo.edu!watyew!jdnicoll From: jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) Subject: Re: zeta reticuli? Message-ID: Sender: news@watdragon.waterloo.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Waterloo References: <1992Jul22.130451.21078@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 03:31:21 GMT Lines: 19 In article <1992Jul22.130451.21078@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> timpson@nntpd2.enet.dec.com (Steve Timpson) writes: > >In article , aaron@spectrx.saigon.com (Aaron Anderer - System) writes... >>I was talking to my mom about some of the stuff I've been reading in this >>group, and I mentioned Zeta Reticuli. She said that she heard that star system >>had a super nova quite recently, actually one of the larger ones. Could some > > WRONG! > > there have been no known super novas in our galaxy in quit > sonetime. they are a rare event and the most recent have been > extra galactic. A supernova within 40 lightyears would be very very obvious (Apparent magnitude of ~ -21ish, I think) and could also be very very bad, wrt our current ecosystem. None of the ZR stars are SN candidates, though. James Nicoll Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.binaries.pictures.misc:8042 alt.alien.visitors:7477 Newsgroups: alt.binaries.pictures.misc,alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!Germany.EU.net!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: Follow up to "UFO-Pic" Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 01:09:34 GMT Message-ID: References: <6rfmyy=@lynx.unm.edu> Lines: 27 Hi, thanks for the effort to edit the Phobos UFO pic, but You missed the point ! The "UFO" should be the "big white line" below phobos ! Did You view the JPEG pic which I had posted only on a 640x480 Monitor? Then You probably missed to view the big line beloe phobos ! You just thought phobos is the UFO ! Have a look again at the original Picture I have posted and You realize Your error ! Best regards Stefan Hartmann. email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de -- ************************************************************* * Stefan Hartmann This is how to contact me: * * EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de * * Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 * ************************************************************* Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: astral travel Message-ID: <62635@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 21:39:51 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul22.193835.3751@acd4.acd.com> Lines: 11 Dear Bill, S., K., A., G., and Lubbe: That is quite a question and I'll try my best to answer it in full as time goes on. The body is devided in 5 or more bodies starting with the physical that we see, then the astral, casual mental, spirtual and a few more thrown in for good measure. In OOB experiences you loose the use of the physical and start looking around with the astral or spiritual. In astral projection you cause the physical to go into a trance state and travel with your astral or spiritual body to go and see things. The astral is a lower frequency than the spiritual and is a little more dangerous to use. More later down the line. John Winston. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: astral travel Message-ID: <62637@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 22 Jul 92 21:43:08 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul22.193835.3751@acd4.acd.com> <1992Jul22.231809.1936@mprgate.mpr.ca> Lines: 4 Dear Len. If you would learn to use these gifts such as telepathy astral projection and a few others then no one would be able to lie to you. Everyone would be an open book for you to read. John Winston. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!unipalm!uknet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!polaris!sara.cc.utu.fi!shanwang From: shanwang@sara.cc.utu.fi Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: RE: Ley_Lines <<= Please cool down =>> Message-ID: <1992Jul23.022433.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> Date: 23 Jul 92 02:24:33 GMT Sender: usenet@polaris.utu.fi (Usenet News) Organization: University of Turku, Finland Lines: 53 Nntp-Posting-Host: sara.cc.utu.fi Dear Alexi, Thank you so much for kindly help for Hillman. I am sorry because for a long time he is away from his Dept. for vocation and will come back next week. Well, anyway please me to say please cool down for you disagree- mant. I think most of your ideas about Lein-Line should be right. Any way you are well-experienced professional but actuallyhillman is only a young innocent enthusiasm in this field. I guess that the only difference is your analysize method is a little different. I had read quite a lot of papers of UFO stuff written by this young fellow. It seems that his researching style is relatively systematically, but also too carefully and slackly. He always express his thankness to me for your genious guidiance which lead his inspiration. But please be patient or caution for a while because you don't know his present subject and hindrance. I hope not from Carl, that fellow is so diffi- cult to deal with in some cases. ^^^^^^^^^^^ In short, please cool down, Mr. Alexi. I hope time can show more evidence to you about Hillman's present business. Haven't you fell any convenience on your Lab. ? For instance, some new research utilities? Before Hillman leave for vocation, he said that those could be very useful for your Corp-Cicycle investigation research on your UFO Club. I hope later hillman can sent you some good news and could go to discuss with you face to face for your joint interested topic. But I'm afraid to say that maybe he is realy not available for taht seminor because he is faraway from your place. Well, anyway thanks a lot for your kindly care for his paper. Hope later you can get more chances to do some joint research programmes. I guess you will like that. By the way, could you recommand me some E-mail address of other enthusiasm who can make a important role in this Corp-Circycle inves- tigation. If next week Hillman want to contact with you. Those fellows can forward tht news to you... Anyway, let's cool down for a while, I hope you can satisfy your achievenent now. Ain't right. Please let's wait for a while, ok ? Thanks for your kindly consideration. Best wishes. Cheer:) Yours UFOly Auratapaa_Wang Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7481 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1980 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!sun4nl!alchemy!ruunfs!spiering From: spiering@fys.ruu.nl (Geert Spiering) Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr Message-ID: <1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl> Organization: Physics Department, University of Utrecht, The Netherlands References: <1992Jul21.002755.17265@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <1992Jul22.150401.15820@news.eng.convex.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 08:03:18 GMT Lines: 17 I hope this adds to the discussion, but since everyone keeps repeating the statement that nothing can travel faster than light, i would like to bring up tachyons. Einsteins theory only states that nothing can travel WITH the speed of light. This means that you cannot accelerate to above the speed of light from velocities less than the speed of light. (An infinite amount of energy would be necessary). However there may be particles that ALWAYS travell at velocities > c. The catch is, that these particles would have to have imaginary masses. One could still associate real energies to these particles, that are singular at v=c. This means that these particles cannot slow down to velocities Sender: news@newshub.sdsu.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: voyager4.sdsu.edu Organization: San Diego State University, College of Sciences X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4 Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 09:14:33 GMT Lines: 28 Hi, this is Mike. I was just wondering if anyone out there took seriously the theories and claims of famed author and traveler Erich Von Daniken. While some of his statements are, I know, a little too far-fetched and absurd to even be considered, there are a few of his ideas which I've found to be quite convincing. I have all of his books and have seen his movies, which were based on his writings. I cannot believe that, in all the vastness of the cosmos, there has not been any visitation to the Earth in the past. After all, we are but a very young planet. Responses? Michael Whittington mike@cadme2.sdsu.edu -- +=============================================+==========================+ |I have existed from the morning of the World.| Ain't Love Grand! | |And I shall exist until the last star falls |--------------------------| |from the Heavens. Although I have taken the | Send Mail To | |form of Caius Caligula, I am all men as I am | mike@cadme2.sdsu.edu | |no man. And so........I am a God. | ignore melissa for now | +=============================================+==========================+ Please send no mail to melissa, as I am on a friends account, and could quite possibly lose my priveleges. My address is listed above........Michael Whittington. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7483 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1981 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!sunic!kth.se!vana!TORDM From: tordm@vana (Tord Malmgren) Subject: Tachyons (was Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr Message-ID: <1992Jul23.105148.13665@kth.se> Sender: usenet@kth.se (Usenet) Nntp-Posting-Host: vana.physto.se Reply-To: TordM@VanD.PhySto.SE Organization: Department of Physics, University of Stockholm -- Sweden References: <1992Jul21.002755.17265@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <1992Jul22.150401.15820@news.eng.convex.com>,<1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 10:51:48 GMT Lines: 22 In article <1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl>, spiering@fys.ruu.nl (Geert Spiering) writes: [...] >However there may be particles that ALWAYS travell at velocities > c. >The catch is, that these particles would have to have imaginary masses. [...] as far as I understood Einstein's relativity it was only valid with speeds less than "c", and what happened with speeds larger than "c" it could not predict, so as far as I understand these Tachyons need not possess imaginary mass at all; maybe they could be real, but how they got into that state no theory tells us... ---------------+-------------------------------- Tord Malmgren | InterNet: TordM@VanD.PhySto.SE | These opinions are my own, | BITNet : TordM@SESUF51 | and NOT of this department! ---------------+-------------------------------- Department of Physics, University of Stockholm Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!axion!achaplin From: achaplin@axion.bt.co.uk (Anthony Chaplin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Why America ? Message-ID: <1992Jul23.114610@axion.bt.co.uk> Date: 23 Jul 92 10:46:10 GMT Sender: news@axion.bt.co.uk Reply-To: achaplin@axion.bt.co.uk (Anthony Chaplin) Organization: British Telecom Research Labs Lines: 25 I have a question for all you Phoenix Project fans out there Why America, why not the old Soviet Union ? Think about it logically, 1. Russia has vast tracks of barren, unpopulated lands. Compared to Russia the remote places in America really aren't that remote. 2. Russia's air traffic control and radar network is much less comphensive than the USA's, therefore the aliens could come and go more easily.. 3. Russia, during the cold war was far behind the technology of the west and so would be willing to pay a higher price for alien technology ? 4. People could be silenced much more easily in the old Soviet Union than they could in the USA (except if your name was Silkwood !) Therefore if these supposed aliens had observed the earth they would have found the Old Soviet Union a much more inviting place to build K-2 ?? But let me guess they do use the Soviet Union for bases, and someone somewhere (who also forgot his camera) has seen it ! Don't get me wrong I don't have a closed mind to aliens (otherwise I wouldn't subscript to this newsgroup) but massive alien bases in the USA ? Cheers Tony achaplin@axion.bt.co.uk Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10905 alt.alien.visitors:7485 sci.skeptic:27804 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: The Prime Directive Message-ID: <62657@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 06:18:58 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <62554@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul22.153119.375@talon.ucs.orst.edu> <1992Jul22.174720.16281@m.cs.uiuc.edu> <62609@cup.portal.com> Lines: 11 Dear Fellow Travelers: Wow last night was really something else. About 23 years ago I became part of what is called the Sananda Sanat Kamara Association. I volunteered to become an Empath which is a person who takes on negative energy when something needs to be disipated. Last night as I attempted to make contact with the people in this group by astral projection things were going along pretty good and received a good picture that was probubly one of the participants. I then went out of conciousness and received a lot of negative energy from many sources. At 0145 I woke up and was in bad shape and with the idea that I'd never try that again but I changed my mind and now plan to do this same thing each wednesday at the same time. More much later. J. W. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7486 sci.skeptic:27805 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Erich Von Daniken Message-ID: <62658@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 06:21:02 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul23.091433.14378@newshub.sdsu.edu> Lines: 61 In article <1992Jul23.091433.14378@newshub.sdsu.edu> melissa@voyager4.sdsu.edu (Melissa ) [actually Mike] writes: | I was just wondering if anyone out there took seriously | the theories and claims of famed author and traveler Erich Von | Daniken. While some of his statements are, I know, a little too | far-fetched and absurd to even be considered, there are a few | of his ideas which I've found to be quite convincing. | [...] | Responses? Whether one subscribes to his theories or not, I *am* grateful to him for presenting (in his books) some interesting mysteries and photos of faraway places that I probably never would have an opportunity to visit. Some of his critics need to "chill out" and sit back and enjoy some of the interesting artifacts presented (whether man-made or not); it's simply not worth raising one's blood pressure in anger! :-) One of the most incredible things (to me) that I saw in person was during the early 1950s in the Smithsonian (in Washington DC); I believe it was in the Natural History Exhibit, and was labelled as tracks of unknown dinosaurs and/or reptiles. Some actual (and identifiable) dinosaur footprints were present in the rock, along with what appeared to me (and these were the ones labelled as "unknown") to be the tracks of a military jeep. Two parallel tracks with about a 5 foot separation (for some 15 feet, in the slab fragment) which resembled today's high-tech all-weather tire-treads. Tracks which were made millions of years ago. Incredible; I'll never forget that sight; and when I uttered that thought out loud (I was only about 8 years old then), everyone turned around and looked at me strangely, yet no-one made any comments or smiled. [ See below ] Kinda like that "spark plug" found embedded in a crystalligerous rock in N. California as shown in a photo in a book by one of V.Daniken's "imitators." Mysteries. Fascinating stuff. Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] ---------- enclosure My recollection of those "unknown" tracks is that they appeared as depicted below. The tracks remained parallel even though they were arced and they both curved to the left (which I cannot reproduce with ASCII graphics): |\| |/| |\| |/| |\| |/| |\| |/| |\| |/| |\| |/| |\| |/| |\| |/| |\| |/| |\| |/| |\| |/| |\| |/| ---------- end enclosure Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU!jasonh From: jasonh@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Jason Haines) Subject: NASA's Block of Ice! Message-ID: <1992Jul23.131612.26963@ucc.su.OZ.AU> Sender: news@ucc.su.OZ.AU Nntp-Posting-Host: extro.ucc.su.oz.au Organization: Uni Computing Service, Uni of Sydney, Australia Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 13:16:12 GMT Lines: 21 I have just viewed the footage taken from the Space Shuttle, as shown on Hard Copy (the Australian version), and I must say it is very interesting. Firstly, to see an object change its direction of motion so radically is an indication of intelligent control, especially when you see that it did so to avoid proximity with a high speed object, be it a meteor or a rail-gun... Secondly, the report on hard copy was pretty superficial, they had no scientists to provide a professional opinion of the video... Despite this, I must say that this video sequence show's the most significant UFO in decades. I'd like to see more discussion of this important piece of evidence. -- ________________________________________________________________________________ Jason Haines - System Operator, MacInTouch BBS (02) 743-5997 (TeleFinder Based) jasonh@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU ________________________________________________________________________________ Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line?? Message-ID: <62659@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 06:32:25 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul18.090727.28652@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <62393@cup.portal.com> Lines: 6 If all goes well, I plan to be in Malibu, caif. in the parking lot, at a litte after 900 AM, Sunday the 26th of July, by the Michael Landon Memorial Community Center. Robert Stanley plans to pick me up there and we're going on one of his all day tours to the ruins of the ancient city. John Winston. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7489 sci.skeptic:27806 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr Message-ID: <62660@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 06:40:07 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul19.003451.17413@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Jul20.184358.10709@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul21.002755.17265@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> Lines: 28 In article <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> news@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au writes: | [...] | To the observer aboard the object/craft, other objects around it would | appear to be the ones moving. Again they would not appear to be travelling | at above the speed of light but in fact they would not be where they appear | to be. Collisions would be unavoidable if navigation was based on sight. | Computers could adjust for known objects, but uncharted small particles | would be disastrous unless the craft was protected by a "forcefield", as | they would hit before they were seen. Using some means of detection other | than light, it might be possible to navigate ad-hoc at above-light speed. | Is there any such method? | [...] Detection; hmmm. It seems to me that a "mass detector" would be required. Such a detector "should" be able to sense matter. Whether one would have the compute power to resolve individual objects based on the massive (no pun! :-) sensory input is another matter! Are not the effects of mass (and therefore gravity) instantaneously permeated thoughout the (known) universe? Or hasn't this issue been resolved? I'm not a physicist, so consider this as lay speculation/conjecture; I visit SLAC and other such places, and I'm in awe of the experiments they conduct. Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7490 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1982 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 14:00:27 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <1992Jul22.150401.15820@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl> Lines: 32 In article <1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl> spiering@fys.ruu.nl (Geert Spiering) writes: >I hope this adds to the discussion, but since everyone keeps repeating >the statement that nothing can travel faster than light, i would like >to bring up tachyons. Great, I'd love to see some. I assume you have a few from the way you brought it up. :^) >Einsteins theory only states that nothing can travel WITH the speed of >light. This means that you cannot accelerate to above the speed of light >from velocities less than the speed of light. (An infinite amount of >energy would be necessary). >However there may be particles that ALWAYS travell at velocities > c. >The catch is, that these particles would have to have imaginary masses. Then again, there may not. But all you need to do is create/detect a few to get the ball rolling. >One could still associate real energies to these particles, that are >singular at v=c. This means that these particles cannot slow down to >velocitiesOf course, no one has ever seen particles with imaginary masses.... > > Geert Spierings. Rich payner@netcom.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Subject: Re: NASA's Block of Ice! Message-ID: <1992Jul23.144101.29930@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. References: <1992Jul23.131612.26963@ucc.su.OZ.AU> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 14:41:01 GMT Lines: 36 Jason,[you write]: >Despite this, I must say that this video sequence show's the most significant >UFO in decades. >I'd like to see more discussion of this important piece of evidence. If you look back when this story first aired here in the U.S., you will find a tedious amount of discussion on the piece of ice/UFO. Also check the alt.skeptics newsgroup. I also have a question for you folks DOWN UNDER.(That's AUSTRAILIA for those of you who don't know where down under is.) I recall that about 3-4 years ago that an egg shaped craft buzzed a family in a car on some highway down there. As I recall there was some material released by the craft & it was retrieved by the occupants of the vehicle. The material was brought in for analysis & that was the last I ever heard about it. I think a fishing boat offshore also reported seeing the craft about an hour later. There was quite a bit of news on the incident back then, but as most news stories go , the press never really follows up. Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$  Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!fstop.csc.ti.com!tidss1!alanj From: alanj@dadd.ti.com (Alan Jones,AMJ1,) Subject: Re: Why America ? Message-ID: <1992Jul23.140405.2340@csc.ti.com> Sender: usenet@csc.ti.com Nntp-Posting-Host: tidss1.dadd.ti.com Reply-To: alanj@dadd.ti.com Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc. References: <1992Jul23.114610@axion.bt.co.uk> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 14:04:05 GMT Lines: 46 In article 114610@axion.bt.co.uk, achaplin@axion.bt.co.uk (Anthony Chaplin) writes: > >I have a question for all you Phoenix Project fans out there > > Why America, why not the old Soviet Union ? > >Think about it logically, > > 1. Russia has vast tracks of barren, unpopulated lands. Compared to Russia the remote places in America really aren't that remote. > > 2. Russia's air traffic control and radar network is much less comphensive than the USA's, therefore the aliens could come and go more easily.. > > 3. Russia, during the cold war was far behind the technology of the west and so would be willing to pay a higher price for alien technology ? > > 4. People could be silenced much more easily in the old Soviet Union than they could in the USA (except if your name was Silkwood !) > >Therefore if these supposed aliens had observed the earth they would have found the Old Soviet Union a much more inviting place to build K-2 ?? > >But let me guess they do use the Soviet Union for bases, and someone somewhere (who also forgot his camera) has seen it ! > >Don't get me wrong I don't have a closed mind to aliens (otherwise I wouldn't subscript to this newsgroup) but massive alien bases in the USA ? > >Cheers > >Tony >achaplin@axion.bt.co.uk Good point. In fact, why not Antartica, northern Canada, or the middle of an ocean? The only reasons I can think of would be: a. They are working with Americans which require access to the base. b. Their work is in that area (outside the base, assuming they must leave the base to accomplish some part of their work), and fuel requirements for transits to/from the more remote locations is prohibitive. c. Their work is in that area, and transits to/from more remote locations would increase the probability of detection. It really comes down to this - why do they have a base on Earth at all? Of course, the possible existence of an alien base in the U.S. does not preclude the possibility of bases existing in these other, more remote, places either. --- sincerely, Alan Jones / Texas Instruments, Dallas, TX / email=alanj@dadd.ti.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!sdd.hp.com!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: zeta reticuli Message-ID: <7wgm0nq@lynx.unm.edu> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 15:02:33 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Lines: 33 In article <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes: >To heck with how the Pleiadians ships work or how fast they go. HOW DID >THEY EVOLVE SO DARN FAST? The Pleiades are bright young stars still >within their nebular cocoon. They are along the order of millions of >years old. It took life on Earth more than 4 billion years to evolve >to the point where it could walk upright, talk, and dream silly dreams. >Are the Pleidians child prodigies? Btw the first prokaryotes didn't >evolve here until a billion years or so after the formation of Earth. >Thomas Freebairn Indeed, unless current theories of planetary formation are WAY off any planets that may have formed in around the stars in the cluster would still be mostly molten! Pretty tough guys if they live in that type of enviroment. Ithlial XXXXX XX XX XXXXX XX XX XX XX XXXXX X X X X XXX XX XX XX X X XXX X XX XXX XX XX XX XXXXX X X X X XX XXX XX XX X XXXXX X XXXXX XX XX XXXXXX XXXXX An Extensive Air Shower Array at the Meson Physics Facility Los Alamos National Labs ____________________________________________________________________________ My opinions are my own, don't you dare give someone else credit for them! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!unipalm!uknet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!polaris!sara.cc.utu.fi!shanwang From: shanwang@sara.cc.utu.fi Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: ***Good_Luck_for_Your_Astral_Convey*** Message-ID: <1992Jul23.144307.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> Date: 23 Jul 92 14:43:07 GMT Sender: usenet@polaris.utu.fi (Usenet News) Organization: University of Turku, Finland Lines: 21 Nntp-Posting-Host: sara.cc.utu.fi ******************************************************************************** >> >> >> Dear Alexi, >> >> >> >> Good luck for your Astral Convey Experiment. I hope it will goes >> >> perfectly and successly. >> >> >> >> Hope you can find that Crystal Star on X-1367 gallexy. But take >> >> care of the black hole on your way... >> >> ---Captain. of Starshuttle >> >> >> >> John. K. Hillman >> >> >> ******************************************************************************** >> >> >> Excuse me this is a short paragraph translated into English. >> >> >> >> The original resource is found from The ruins of UFO craft. >> >> >> ******************************************************************************** Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: zeta reticuli? Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 15:23:11 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <1992Jul22.130451.21078@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Lines: 28 In article jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes: > > A supernova within 40 lightyears would be very very obvious >(Apparent magnitude of ~ -21ish, I think) and could also be very very >bad, wrt our current ecosystem. None of the ZR stars are SN candidates, >though. > > James Nicoll Another thing to think about is if the star had been a supernovae candidate it would have been a red giant. Which means that (a) it would have been around apparent mag -6 or so and (b) it would have engulfed or nearly engulfed any planets with orbtial radii similar to the earth's (ie the range of orbital radii within which it is thought necessary for a planet to have to be habital.) Ithlial My opinions, mine, mine, mine! I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go, "What, was THAT?!" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: astral travel Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 15:29:47 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <1992Jul22.193835.3751@acd4.acd.com> <1992Jul22.231809.1936@mprgate.mpr.ca> <62637@cup.portal.com> Lines: 20 In article <62637@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Len. If you would learn to use these gifts such as telepathy >astral projection and a few others then no one would be able to lie >to you. Everyone would be an open book for you to read. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >John Winston. Gosh, isn't that a pleasant thought! My opinions, mine, mine, mine! I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go, "What, was THAT?!" Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!wellison From: wellison@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Roswell Museum (UFO Engima) Message-ID: <1992Jul23.110345.41842@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> Date: 23 Jul 92 11:03:45 CDT Organization: University of Kansas Academic Computing Services Lines: 11 In case anyone is travelling through Roswell, there is a museum there called the 'UFO ENIGMA'. The curator is John Price and he did a excellent job in re-creating the Roswell crash (complete with a saucer and four life sized greys) from the available data. There are many actual newspaper articles and documents about the crash at the museum. I spent three days down there while on my way to the MUFON conference and met Clifford Stone (author of UFO Enigma) while I was there. Great people. There is another museum in the works by Glenn Dennis and Walter Haut in Roswell as well. If you go through, the museum is a must see. -=-=- Wes =-=-= Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7498 sci.skeptic:27815 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!m.cs.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!mcgrath From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) Subject: Re: Erich Von Daniken Message-ID: <1992Jul23.170148.919@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Sender: news@m.cs.uiuc.edu (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager)) Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science References: <1992Jul23.091433.14378@newshub.sdsu.edu> <62658@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:01:48 GMT Lines: 42 In article <62658@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes in part: |> Whether one subscribes to his theories or not, I *am* grateful to him |> for presenting (in his books) some interesting mysteries and photos |> of faraway places that I probably never would have an opportunity to |> visit. |> |> Some of his critics need to "chill out" and sit back and enjoy some |> of the interesting artifacts presented (whether man-made or not); it's |> simply not worth raising one's blood pressure in anger! :-) Tastes differ. I have always found VD's stuff both boring and bogus. REAL mysteries and archeology are much more interesting than VD's stuff, as is REAL science fiction. Unfortunately, his readers may never discover that fact. Anyway, I despise liars, and as I grow older I find it more and more difficult to "chill out" about blatant and insincere dishonesty. |> One of the most incredible things (to me) that I saw in person was during |> the early 1950s in the Smithsonian (in Washington DC); I believe it was in |> the Natural History Exhibit, and was labelled as tracks of unknown dinosaurs |> and/or reptiles. |> |> Some actual (and identifiable) dinosaur footprints were present in the rock, |> along with what appeared to me (and these were the ones labelled as "unknown") |> to be the tracks of a military jeep. Two parallel tracks with about a 5 foot |> separation (for some 15 feet, in the slab fragment) which resembled today's |> high-tech all-weather tire-treads. Tracks which were made millions of years |> ago. Incredible; I'll never forget that sight; and when I uttered that thought |> out loud (I was only about 8 years old then), everyone turned around and |> looked at me strangely, yet no-one made any comments or smiled. [ See below ] Incredible is the word. This would be a lot harder to understand if I hadn't read the classic science fiction story of that time from which this little joke was taken. Is there a correlation between reading science fiction and finding VD and Forteans boring? Maybe a cultivated Sense of Wonder raises the level of Wonder you need to feel excited. -- Robert E. McGrath Urbana Illinois mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7499 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1983 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Supraluminal v (was Re: Elapsed Time near c ) Message-ID: Date: 23 Jul 92 17:23:17 GMT References: <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <1992Jul22.150401.15820@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 81 In article <1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl> spiering@fys.ruu.nl (Geert Spiering) writes: >I hope this adds to the discussion, but since everyone keeps repeating >the statement that nothing can travel faster than light, i would like Hmm, what velocity do photons travel at? I think you mean to say that nothing with a rest mass can travel at c. >to bring up tachyons. >Einsteins theory only states that nothing can travel WITH the speed of >light. This means that you cannot accelerate to above the speed of light >from velocities less than the speed of light. (An infinite amount of >energy would be necessary). >However there may be particles that ALWAYS travell at velocities > c. >The catch is, that these particles would have to have imaginary masses. >One could still associate real energies to these particles, that are No, the energy would be imaginary. The relativistic formula for total energy is E^2 = m^2*c^4 + p^2*c^2 = m^2*c^4 + m^2*gamma^2*v^2*c^2. Where m is the rest mass (positive real) and gamma is the relativistic factor equal to 1/sqrt(1-(v^2/c^2)) which for v > c is imaginary. Thus the first term is positive real and the second is negative real. But the second term is larger in magnitude that the first: E^2 = m^2*c^4 + m^2*v^2*c^2/(1-v^2/c^2) we're only worried about the sign so I'm going to divide out the postive things (rest mass and c), now we have E^2 is propotional to, 1 + (v^2/c^2)/(1-v^2c/^2) putting it all over a common denominator, = (1-(v^2/c^2) + (v^2/c^2))/(1-v^2/c^2) = 1/(1-v^2/c^2) which always negative since v>c and the square root of a negative is imaginary. >singular at v=c. This means that these particles cannot slow down to >velocitiesOf course, no one has ever seen particles with imaginary masses.... Especially because at there extension in space in the direction of their progation is imaginary too, which I guess would make them two dimensional? > > Geert Spierings. > An interesting argument that I have heard is that if time is quantized (the hypothetical quanta of time is called a 'chronon') then you might be able to skip going exactly c and your next quanta of velocity would be greater than c. Mind you this is pure spectulation and I'm relating this since I think its relevant to the discussion not because I necessarily think it's possible. In any event on would have question how small the quanta is since te highest energy cosmic rays possess gamma factors of 10^11 (100,000,000,000) which translates into a velocity of 0.99999999999999999999995 the speed of light, meaning that the alleged 'chronon' is pretty damn small! So if we are to get glose enough to c to make the little hop to the 'other side' we're going to need alot of energy. Just a different way of looking at it. Relativity and supraluminal velocities are really strange. And of course who knows if these equations really describe supraluminal phenomena anyhow! Ithlial the Archer XXXXX XX XX XXXXX XX XX XX XX XXXXX X X X X XXX XX XX XX X X XXX X XX XXX XX XX XX XXXXX X X X X XX XXX XX XX X XXXXX X XXXXX XX XX XXXXXX XXXXX An Extensive Air Shower Array at the Meson Physics Facility Los Alamos National Labs My opinions are my own, don't you dare give someone else credit for them! Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7500 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1984 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!Germany.EU.net!news.netmbx.de!netmbx!mds From: mds@netmbx.netmbx.de (Michael Such) Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr Organization: netmbx, Berlin, Germany Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:32:24 GMT Message-ID: <0LD5YT@netmbx.netmbx.de> References: <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <1992Jul22.150401.15820@news.eng.convex.com> <14jvecINNaa8@agate.berkeley.edu> Lines: 46 In article <14jvecINNaa8@agate.berkeley.edu> clune@physics.Berkeley.EDU (Tom Clune) writes: >A while back, some astronomers noticed some jets associated with galaxies that >"appeared" to exceed the speed of light. The simple resolution of this paradox >is relevant to this discussion. > >Suppose a ship takes off from a star 10 light years away, and heads straight >toward Earth. Lets assume the ship quickly attains the speed of 90% >of the speed of light (relative to the earth). >At first we on Earth see nothing. In fact only after ten years do we see >the ship take off. (Of course being scientists, we can then infer the original >departure time by extrapolation.). The ship reaches us 11.1 years after >its departure. Hence, a naive observer on the Earth "sees" the ship travel >10 light years in only 1.1 years. There is no contradiction with relativity >here. > >In fact, by playing with the numbers one can arrange situations >in which arbitrarily high speeds are "observed". Once the propagation speed >of the light we are using for observation is taken into account though, all >relative velocities will be found to be less than the speed of light (according to >special relativity, which seems prettyy well established by experiment). > >- Tom > I had an interesting thought... If a vehicle came towards us faster than the speed of light, we would only see it after it had passed us, and it would appear to go backwards right? I don't know no anything about relativity, but here's another thought... You stick a person into a (say) faster than light subway. the subway travels at (say) twice the speed of light and you give him some sandwiches and some tea and tell him to stay on the tube for ten years, after which he can get off, now what happens when the subway reaches the final station after ten years (train time), does a guy get off who is ten years older and find that a lot of older people are wondering why the train decided to keep on going for 100 years, or is it that the train stops after 2 years and a man who is 2 years older see's a lot of people who are 10 years older? or wouldn't this work on a subway? Mike -- Mike Such NETMBX - Berlin, Germany Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7501 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1985 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!csa2.lbl.gov!sichase From: sichase@csa2.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Tachyons (was Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr Date: 23 Jul 92 19:04:16 GMT Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA Lines: 18 Distribution: na Message-ID: <24821@dog.ee.lbl.gov> References: <1992Jul21.002755.17265@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <1992Jul23.105148.13665@kth.se> Reply-To: sichase@csa2.lbl.gov NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.197 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 In article <1992Jul23.105148.13665@kth.se>, tordm@vana (Tord Malmgren) writes... > > as far as I understood Einstein's relativity it was only valid with speeds >less than "c", and what happened with speeds larger than "c" it could not >predict, so as far as I understand these Tachyons need not possess imaginary >mass at all; maybe they could be real, but how they got into that state no >theory tells us... Not so. There is a very nice entry in the sci.physics faq (I should know - I wrote it!) on the subject of tachyons. I recommend it to all. -Scott -------------------- Scott I. Chase "The question seems to be of such a character SICHASE@CSA2.LBL.GOV that if I should come to life after my death and some mathematician were to tell me that it had been definitely settled, I think I would immediately drop dead again." - Vandiver Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10911 alt.alien.visitors:7502 sci.skeptic:27817 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!glassboro.edu!cass8806 From: cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu (KYLE CASSIDY) Subject: Re: The Prime Directive Message-ID: Sender: news@gboro.glassboro.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: bizlab210.glassboro.edu Organization: Glassboro State College, Glassboro, NJ References: <62554@cup.portal.com> <62609@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 17:53:38 GMT Lines: 17 In article <62609@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Everybody: I don't have time to say much. A person by the name >of Kumar in Germany has been sending me E-mail and my E-mail has not >been getting back to him so I sent him a telepathic message. He wrote >me yesterday that he was aware of me sending him a telepathic message >and that I had woken him up and had also appeared in his dreams. This >has happened to me and other people before. On sunday and monday nights >I did a little warm up astral projection. Remember tonight at 1100 PM >it the time we'll do the experiment. >John Winston. that's AMAZING! Kumar has been appearing in MY dreams too! though in the guise of a shoe salesman trying to sell filet mignon to sandinista rebels with inflamed salvatory glands!! what could this mean? Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10912 alt.alien.visitors:7503 sci.skeptic:27820 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU!Xenon.Stanford.EDU!amorgan From: amorgan@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Crunchy Frog) Subject: Re: The Prime Directive Message-ID: <1992Jul23.182915.22178@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University. References: <62554@cup.portal.com> <62609@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 18:29:15 GMT Lines: 27 In article cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu (KYLE CASSIDY) writes: >In article <62609@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > >>Dear Everybody: I don't have time to say much. A person by the name >>of Kumar in Germany has been sending me E-mail and my E-mail has not >>been getting back to him so I sent him a telepathic message. He wrote >>me yesterday that he was aware of me sending him a telepathic message >>and that I had woken him up and had also appeared in his dreams. This >>has happened to me and other people before. On sunday and monday nights >>I did a little warm up astral projection. Remember tonight at 1100 PM >>it the time we'll do the experiment. >>John Winston. > >that's AMAZING! Kumar has been appearing in MY dreams too! though in the >guise of a shoe salesman trying to sell filet mignon to sandinista rebels >with inflamed salvatory glands!! > >what could this mean? I think it means you need to lay off the medication for a few weeks. (BTW - John Winston has been appearing in my dreams too. He is usually wearing leather and has a Golden retreiver and about 10 containers of whipped cream with him. Scares the shit out of me). C Frog Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!bronze!indyvax.iupui.edu!tffreeba From: tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu Subject: Re: zeta reticuli? Message-ID: <1992Jul23.141246.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Lines: 28 Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: indyvax.iupui.edu Organization: Indiana University References: <1992Jul22.130451.21078@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Date: 23 Jul 92 14:12:46 -0500 In article , cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes: > In article jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes: >> >> A supernova within 40 lightyears would be very very obvious >>(Apparent magnitude of ~ -21ish, I think) and could also be very very >>bad, wrt our current ecosystem. None of the ZR stars are SN candidates, >>though. >> >> James Nicoll > > Another thing to think about is if the star had been a supernovae > candidate it would have been a red giant. Which means that (a) it > would have been around apparent mag -6 or so and (b) it would have > engulfed or nearly engulfed any planets with orbtial radii similar > to the earth's (ie the range of orbital radii within which it is > thought necessary for a planet to have to be habital.) > > Ithlial Just to be the >:-)> advocate: would not the "comfort zone" for planetary radii be moved outward for a star massive enough to become a red giant? Not that the fact that the star turned into a red giant would not destroy the environment of any habitable planet no matter what its orbital radii was (or that such a star would not stick around long enough to evovle higher life.) Thomas Freebairn * I wish I had an employer * whose opinions mine were not. Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10915 alt.alien.visitors:7505 sci.skeptic:27821 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!walter!phelix!mdl From: mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch) Subject: Re: The Prime Directive Message-ID: <1992Jul23.191218.4759@walter.bellcore.com> Sender: news@walter.bellcore.com Nntp-Posting-Host: phelix.bellcore.com Reply-To: mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch) Organization: Bellcore References: <62554@cup.portal.com> <62609@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul23.182915.22178@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 19:12:18 GMT Lines: 36 In article <1992Jul23.182915.22178@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, amorgan@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Crunchy Frog) writes: |> In article |> cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu (KYLE CASSIDY) writes: |> >In article <62609@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: |> > |> >>Dear Everybody: I don't have time to say much. A person by the name |> >>of Kumar in Germany has been sending me E-mail and my E-mail has not |> >>been getting back to him so I sent him a telepathic message. He wrote |> >>me yesterday that he was aware of me sending him a telepathic message |> >>and that I had woken him up and had also appeared in his dreams. This |> >>has happened to me and other people before. On sunday and monday nights |> >>I did a little warm up astral projection. Remember tonight at 1100 PM |> >>it the time we'll do the experiment. |> >>John Winston. |> > |> >that's AMAZING! Kumar has been appearing in MY dreams too! though in the |> >guise of a shoe salesman trying to sell filet mignon to sandinista rebels |> >with inflamed salvatory glands!! |> > |> >what could this mean? |> |> I think it means you need to lay off the medication for a few weeks. |> |> (BTW - John Winston has been appearing in my dreams too. He is usually |> wearing leather and has a Golden retreiver and about 10 containers of |> whipped cream with him. Scares the shit out of me). |> |> C Frog I had a dream that grey empaths dressed in black had taken over New Jersey..... Mike Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10917 alt.alien.visitors:7506 sci.skeptic:27825 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!wupost!sdd.hp.com!usc!news.bbn.com!ingria From: ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: The Prime Directive Message-ID: Date: 23 Jul 92 19:50:22 GMT References: <62554@cup.portal.com> <62609@cup.portal.com> Reply-To: ingria@BBN.COM Lines: 31 NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com In-reply-to: cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu's message of 23 Jul 92 17:53:38 GMT In article cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu (KYLE CASSIDY) writes: In article <62609@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Everybody: I don't have time to say much. A person by the name >of Kumar in Germany has been sending me E-mail and my E-mail has not >been getting back to him so I sent him a telepathic message. He wrote >me yesterday that he was aware of me sending him a telepathic message >and that I had woken him up and had also appeared in his dreams. This >has happened to me and other people before. On sunday and monday nights >I did a little warm up astral projection. Remember tonight at 1100 PM >it the time we'll do the experiment. >John Winston. that's AMAZING! Kumar has been appearing in MY dreams too! though in the guise of a shoe salesman trying to sell filet mignon to sandinista rebels with inflamed salvatory glands!! what could this mean? Either: The owls are not what they seem or: John_-_Winston is a bit of underdone potato(e) -30- Bob ``We're searching the universe for habitable life.'' Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!news.hawaii.edu!hubble!kiernan From: kiernan@hubble.ifa.hawaii.edu (Elaine Kiernan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: UFO books Message-ID: <1992Jul23.193217.510@news.Hawaii.Edu> Date: 23 Jul 92 19:32:17 GMT Sender: root@news.Hawaii.Edu (News Service) Organization: Institute for Astronomy, Hawaii Lines: 15 Nntp-Posting-Host: hubble.ifa.hawaii.edu Hi folks, I'd like to read some good books on UFO's etc. What's your favorite UFO book? The kind of book I'd like to find has objective accounts of "what happened" e.g. abductees' experiences, eyewitness accounts, etc. I'm not really interested in theories or philosophies, just the facts, know what I mean? Anyway, it would be interesting to see what everyone has read! Thanks! Live long and prosper, Elaine kiernan@koa.ifa.hawaii.edu Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7508 sci.skeptic:27829 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!umeecs!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 20:54:51 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <1992Jul21.002755.17265@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <62660@cup.portal.com> Lines: 30 In article <62660@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: > >Are not the effects of mass (and therefore gravity) instantaneously permeated >thoughout the (known) universe? Or hasn't this issue been resolved? I'm not >a physicist, so consider this as lay speculation/conjecture; I visit SLAC and >other such places, and I'm in awe of the experiments they conduct. > >Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] The idea behind special relativity is that information cannot be conveyed from place to place at a velocity exceeding the speed of light. Since gravity betrays the presence of matter its effects cannot propogate faster than the speed of light. Another way to look at it that gravity like other forces is conveyed by bosons. Bosons, depending on if they are massive or not travel at the below or at the speed of light respectively. P.S. We have a pretty nice accelerator here at LAMPF/LANL (Los Alamos Meson Physics Facilty/Los Alamos Nat'l Labs) cary@dsirae.lampf.lanl.gov My opinions, mine, mine, mine! To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit eachother. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!axion!spuddy!warlock From: warlock@spuddy.uucp (Sean Eaton) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: RFD: Split, rename alt.alien.visitors Message-ID: <1992Jul23.183352.1133@spuddy.uucp> Date: 23 Jul 92 18:33:52 GMT Organization: Spuddy's Public Usenet Domain Lines: 16 If a.a.v. is split up, all that will happen is that many articles will get cross-posted to every group in the alien sub-heirachy. This will be especailly true for talk.religion.newage posters who add a.a.v onto the end of the Newsgroups: line almost by default, it seems; and for those who insist on posting replies to private e-mail to the net instead of mailing the user directly. I'll wager these "off subject" and private messages will be posted to all groups. Think about it: five identical copies of a message starting "Dear Fred:" ? I think you get my drift ... No; a.a.v. should stay as it is for the moment. -Sean. asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk | warlock%spuddy@uknet.ac.uk -Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatus nunc- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!destroyer!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Subject: Re: Why America ? Message-ID: <1992Jul23.210848.14985@mprgate.mpr.ca> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada References: <1992Jul23.114610@axion.bt.co.uk> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 21:08:48 GMT Lines: 48 In article <1992Jul23.114610@axion.bt.co.uk>, achaplin@axion.bt.co.uk (Anthony Chaplin) writes: (I fixed the wrapping lines. L.S.) |> |> I have a question for all you Phoenix Project fans out there |> |> Why America, why not the old Soviet Union ? |> |> Think about it logically, |> |> 1. Russia has vast tracks of barren, unpopulated lands. Compared to |> Russia the remote places in America really aren't that remote. |> |> 2. Russia's air traffic control and radar network is much less |> comphensive than the USA's, therefore the aliens could come and go more |> easily.. |> |> 3. Russia, during the cold war was far behind the technology of the west |> and so would be willing to pay a higher price for alien technology ? |> |> 4. People could be silenced much more easily in the old Soviet Union than |> they could in the USA (except if your name was Silkwood !) |> |> Therefore if these supposed aliens had observed the earth they would have |> found the Old Soviet Union a much more inviting place to build K-2 ?? |> |> But let me guess they do use the Soviet Union for bases, and someone somewhere |> (who also forgot his camera) has seen it ! |> |> Don't get me wrong I don't have a closed mind to aliens (otherwise I wouldn't |> subscript to this newsgroup) but massive alien bases in the USA ? |> |> Cheers |> |> Tony |> achaplin@axion.bt.co.uk Perhaps the base is very old. K2 might have seemed like a great place 1000 years ago. Additionally, there is no reason to believe that K2 is the *only* base on earth. There could be 100s all over the place. Oh darn. I forgot to say "alleged bases" :^) -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *********************************************************************** Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!spool.mu.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: NASA's Block of Ice! Message-ID: <#8gm_lc@lynx.unm.edu> Date: 23 Jul 92 21:27:15 GMT Article-I.D.: lynx.#8gm_lc References: <1992Jul23.131612.26963@ucc.su.OZ.AU> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 48 In article <1992Jul23.131612.26963@ucc.su.OZ.AU> jasonh@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Jason Haines) writes: >Firstly, to see an object change its direction of motion so radically is >an indication of intelligent control, especially when you see that it did so >to avoid proximity with a high speed object, be it a meteor or a rail-gun... When the wind blows leaves change direction fairly radically but this hardly means they're intelligent. When a stray asteroid gets too close to Jupiter it gets captured, but I would not ascribe it or Jupiter any great intellect for the act. > >Secondly, the report on hard copy was pretty superficial, they had no >scientists to provide a professional opinion of the video... > >Despite this, I must say that this video sequence show's the most significant >UFO in decades. > PAS! >I'd like to see more discussion of this important piece of evidence. >Jason Haines - System Operator, MacInTouch BBS (02) 743-5997 >(TeleFinder Based) >jasonh@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU Ok here's the scoop Jason. Ice routinely builds up on various parts of any space vehicle using refrigerated liquids like liquid oxygen and hydrogen. Some of it comes loose and follows the shuttle (or whatever) in orbit. This phenomenon is well documented (John Glenn's fireflies.) The shuttles have numerous small maneuvering jets to maintain its attitude in orbit, these jets are often controlled by by the computer which fires them when the shuttle drifts to far out of the desired attitude. Anyhow when one of these fires it shoots out a plume of gas. Like a leaf in the wind, ice chunks, when hit with the exhaust of 800 lb thrust jets will change direction rather radically. I think that people need to develope their critical thinking skills a bit. Ithlial My opinions, mine, mine, mine! I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go, "What, was THAT?!" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Re: NASA's Block of Ice! Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 20:39:47 GMT Message-ID: References: <1992Jul23.131612.26963@ucc.su.OZ.AU> <1992Jul23.144101.29930@odin.corp.sgi.com> Lines: 66 In <1992Jul23.144101.29930@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: >Jason,[you write]: >>Despite this, I must say that this video sequence show's the most >significant >>UFO in decades. >>I'd like to see more discussion of this important piece of evidence. >If you look back when this story first aired here in the U.S., you will >find a tedious amount of discussion on the piece of ice/UFO. Also check the >alt.skeptics newsgroup. >I also have a question for you folks DOWN UNDER.(That's AUSTRAILIA for >those of you who don't know where down under is.) I recall that about 3-4 >years ago that >an egg shaped craft buzzed a family in a car on some highway down there. As >I recall there was some material released by the craft & it was retrieved >by the occupants of the vehicle. The material was brought in for analysis & >that was the last I ever heard about it. I think a fishing boat offshore >also reported >seeing the craft about an hour later. There was quite a bit of news on the >incident back then, but as most news stories go , the press never really >follows up. >Rod >-- >Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ >Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, >rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." Hi, this UFO accident what You mentioned was in Adelaine, Sothern Australia ! I heard about it too and still have a newspaper article about it ! Well, the UFO shook a car and the family which was driving in this car did hide near the car. When they came back, when the UFO left, there was some black ashes all over the top of the car ! This ashes should be investigated by some chemical lab, but I never heard of any results ! Did anybody hear about the results of the chemical test ? Please send email as a reply to me, cause I am from tommorrow on 2 weeks on vaccation (holidays)! Best regards, Stefan Hartmann. email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de -- ************************************************************* * Stefan Hartmann This is how to contact me: * * EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de * * Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 * ************************************************************* Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!bgsuvax!uoft02.utoledo.edu!desire.wright.edu!cse0947 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Is Bigfoot a Visitor? Message-ID: <1992Jul23.134824.3067@desire.wright.edu> From: cse0947@desire.wright.edu Date: 23 Jul 92 13:48:24 EST Organization: Wright State University Lines: 3 Does anyone have an opinion as to whether the Bigfoot legend may be connected with alien visitors? Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Subject: Re: Is Bigfoot a Visitor? Message-ID: <1992Jul23.233900.28968@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. References: <1992Jul23.134824.3067@desire.wright.edu> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 23:39:00 GMT Lines: 75 Wright State University,[you write] >Does anyone have an opinion as to whether the Bigfoot legend may be >connected with alien visitors? I feel that it might be possible & here is my reason why..... About 5 years ago myself & my X were camping at Whiskeytown Lake near Mt. Shasta in Northern California.We arrived at around 130am so everyone in the area was asleep. Her parents set up the tent before we arrived so we didn't have to set it up.(Thank Goodness) Our tent was one of those Bigtop style montsers that has a very large opening for a door. I think its dimensions were 10'X12'.At any rate the door of the tent was facing the water,we were approximately 10-15' away from the water with NO OBSTRUCTIONS.There were quite a few campers in the area . It was surprisingly warm,so much so that we decided to sleep with the outer doors rolled back & tied with nothing but the bug net screen door between us & the outside world. It must have been 200am by the time we finally went to sleep.I am a very HEAVY sleeper.....I mean anti-aircraft fire could be going off next door & I won't wake up,on the other hand, My X was a very light sleeper. I am very slow person to wake up also.It's like being born every day of my life,a struggle. What happened next was one of a few strange things that has happened to me in my life.I'm not sure exactly what time it was but it was pre-sunrise(you know when the sun has not come up over the horizen but the light begins to dominate over the darkness.Well like I said , I never wake up but that morning I woke out of a dead sleep & sat strait UP! Looked out of the screen door to see to my amazement 7-10' creature standing about 5-6' away......staring at me.I could not really see its eyes but it was apparently facing my direction. I then rubbed my eyes violently & took a second look.....HOLY SHIT this thing is still standing there motionless.Boy the butterflies in my stomach felt like bats racing through my innards,man was I scared.I could see the outline of hair all over its body,(like Chewbacca from Star Wars)except for its legs. The legs were covered with scales/plates or body armor type stuff,it was not light enough to get a real good look at it..too strange. I then after about what seemed like forever (probably more like 30 seconds) I turned to my X and tried to wake her up to see this thing. She would not wake up & I shook her pretty good. Finally she came around but she was really groggy. I then turned back around to show her this thing but it was G-O-N-E. No sound of footsteps or anything....just gone. My X was not to happy that I woke her up & went back to sleep. I ,on the other had was pretty shook up. I didn't like the idea that a BIG critter could just materialize in our campsite & then just vanish. I never got the feeling it was trying to communicate with me or anything like that. I did not get up to go & check it out,,which was strange cause normally I am a curious person.I finally made it back to sleep.What a night!! In closing I would like to say that although no one else had seen (I asked alot of people )this thing in the area I believe it was real. The silouette sticks in my mind very clearly to this day.Very odd experience. BTW roughly 2 weeks later both my X & I woke up with bloody noses at the same time.(& no we didn't bump heads in the middle of the night.) Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$  Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!wdo From: wdo@TEFS1.acd.com (Bill Overpeck) Subject: Re: astral travel Message-ID: <1992Jul23.213821.9746@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1992 21:38:21 GMT Lines: 26 In <1992Jul22.231809.1936@mprgate.mpr.ca> spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) writes: > In article <1992Jul22.193835.3751@acd4.acd.com>, wdo@TEFS1.acd.com (Bill Overpeck) writes: |> |> John, many of us here are interested in the relationship between |> astral travel (out of body experiences) and near death experiences. |> |> When you are traveling in the astral plane (assuming that such |> travel is not possible in the physical plane), is this accomplished |> via an astral "body" or is this a purely non-physical experience. |> |> What is your opinion of near death experiences? Are such events |> merely the first occurrence (for most people) of the astral body |> leaving the physical body? |> |> Bill, Scot, Keith, Aaron, George, and Lubbe >Could you please take this discussion to email or a more appropriate >newsgroup? (alt.oobe, alt.paranormal, talk.religion.newage, etc...) We don't get alt.oobe at our site, Leonard, but we'll go to alt.para- normal (despite the well known fact that most abductions are accomplished on the astral plane). Bill, Scot, Keith, Aaron, George, and Lubbe Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!cs.mu.OZ.AU!munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU!curmi From: curmi@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Jamie Paul CURMI) Subject: Re: Egg shaped craft down under (3-4 years ago) Message-ID: <9220611.15056@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> Sender: news@cs.mu.OZ.AU Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia References: <1992Jul23.131612.26963@ucc.su.OZ.AU> <1992Jul23.144101.29930@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 01:53:52 GMT Lines: 63 rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: >I also have a question for you folks DOWN UNDER.(That's AUSTRAILIA for >those of you who don't know where down under is.) I recall that about 3-4 >years ago that >an egg shaped craft buzzed a family in a car on some highway down there. As >I recall there was some material released by the craft & it was retrieved >by the occupants of the vehicle. The material was brought in for analysis & >that was the last I ever heard about it. I think a fishing boat offshore >also reported >seeing the craft about an hour later. There was quite a bit of news on the >incident back then, but as most news stories go , the press never really >follows up. Hi! Yeah, I followed this story very closely at the time. It happened just as Hinch started his new show on 7 (Hinch at 7, on 7 ;-), and Hinch quickly organised interviews with the entire family. The car had some really good dents and scrapes on it I believe. It was reported that the silvery/black material found on and in the car was analysed...and after an awful long time the lab people said it was dust from their brakes or something similar due to their brakes. This whole thing seemed a little weird (not the story, but the analysis & the way everything went really strange and quiet about this incident). I'm not trying to imply a coverup (ok...maybe I am \(^_^)/ ), but this poor family got treated like shit soon after they told their story. A number of weeks later (possibly months even) the family were once again interviewed (well, more like a very brief chat). The mother said that since the incident people had harrased her, and called her a lier, and treated the whole family pretty badly. She said she wished she had never told anyone this story, and was visibly upset by the whole affair. That was the last I heard. Local Oz Scientists suggested they were hit by lightning, and the usual scientist type response to anything unusual (oh...it was ball lightning, a weather balloon, you imagined it all...etc). I don't know what it was.. it may well have been something quite natural....but the family said the UFO grabbed the car, and tried to lift it off the ground, and that they could see a glowing egg shaped thingy, bashing against the roof. By the way, a number of ufo reports came in from Queensland last night... a light in the sky, moving from the west (?), hovering above, then moving back from where it came. One person described it as a flying camp-fire (that's a new one....hard to imagine....perhaps a Grey Boy Scout :-). Anyone else hear about this report. It seems a lot of UFO's are being reported down under lately. Have the Greys only just discovered Australia? (bit like you Americans....NO.. there are NO kangaroos jumpin' around my back garden, or in my street!!!! ;-) Jamie -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jamie P. Curmi (curmi@cs.mu.oz.au, curmi@maths.mu.oz.au) Department of Computer Science, Department of Mathematics The Un iversity of Melbourne, Parkville, Victoria, Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** Mutate NOW - avoid the rush! *** Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!jcitro3 From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) Subject: Re: NASA's Block of Ice! Message-ID: <1992Jul24.031232.10196@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha References: <#8gm_lc@lynx.unm.edu> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 03:12:32 GMT Lines: 9 I do not claim to be a physicist or even a hobbiest of quantum mechanics, but if the first object was indeed ice that moved due to the shuttle's engines (or whatever) then why did the first object that clearly seems to be furtherter away move first? Would not the initial force applied by the shuttle act on the nearer object first (supposed fired shot)? Accordingly, the UFO would not have moved until the shot (or ice) arrived. Any explanations? Joseph A. Citro III Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!jcitro3 From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) Subject: Re: Why America ? Message-ID: <1992Jul24.031658.10283@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha References: <1992Jul23.140405.2340@csc.ti.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 03:16:58 GMT Lines: 52 alanj@dadd.ti.com writes: > In article 114610@axion.bt.co.uk, achaplin@axion.bt.co.uk (Anthony Chaplin) writes: > > > >I have a question for all you Phoenix Project fans out there > > > > Why America, why not the old Soviet Union ? > > > >Think about it logically, > > > > 1. Russia has vast tracks of barren, unpopulated lands. Compared to Russia the remote places in America really aren't that remote. > > > > 2. Russia's air traffic control and radar network is much less comphensive than the USA's, therefore the aliens could come and go more easily.. > > > > 3. Russia, during the cold war was far behind the technology of the west and so would be willing to pay a higher price for alien technology ? > > > > 4. People could be silenced much more easily in the old Soviet Union than they could in the USA (except if your name was Silkwood !) > > > >Therefore if these supposed aliens had observed the earth they would have found the Old Soviet Union a much more inviting place to build K-2 ?? > > > >But let me guess they do use the Soviet Union for bases, and someone somewhere (who also forgot his camera) has seen it ! > > > >Don't get me wrong I don't have a closed mind to aliens (otherwise I wouldn't subscript to this newsgroup) but massive alien bases in the USA ? > > > >Cheers > > > >Tony > >achaplin@axion.bt.co.uk > > Good point. In fact, why not Antartica, northern Canada, or the middle of an > ocean? The only reasons I can think of would be: > > a. They are working with Americans which require access to the base. > b. Their work is in that area (outside the base, assuming they must leave > the base to accomplish some part of their work), and fuel requirements for > transits to/from the more remote locations is prohibitive. > c. Their work is in that area, and transits to/from more remote locations > would increase the probability of detection. > > It really comes down to this - why do they have a base on Earth at all? > > Of course, the possible existence of an alien base in the U.S. does not preclude > the possibility of bases existing in these other, more remote, places either. > > --- > sincerely, > Alan Jones / Texas Instruments, Dallas, TX / email=alanj@dadd.ti.com > Why not use the moon as a base? (of course maybe they are). The close proximity to Earth and the seclusion would make it ideal! Joseph A. Citro III Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.config:8991 alt.alien.visitors:7519 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr From: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: RFD: Split, rename alt.alien.visitors Followup-To: alt.config Date: 24 Jul 1992 03:30:03 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 56 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: Reply-To: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com A number of netters have suggested that we should have a common 2nd-level name, and I agree. But so far none of them has come up with a good one. Let's try "strange", so that we have the newsgroup alt.alien.visitors split and renamed as follows: alt.strange.ufos - aerial sightings, close encounters of 1st and 2nd kind alt.strange.aliens - close encounters of 3rd and 4th kinds, abductions alt.strange.circles - crop circles, unidentified ground markings alt.strange.mutilations - strange mutilations alt.strange.coverups - official coverups, disinformation, harrassments All these work except the last. We could try "anomaly": alt.anomaly.ufos - aerial sightings, close encounters of 1st and 2nd kind alt.anomaly.aliens - close encounters of 3rd and 4th kinds, abductions alt.anomaly.circles - crop circles, unidentified ground markings alt.anomaly.mutilations - strange mutilations alt.anomaly.coverups - official coverups, disinformation, harrassments Well, better, but still too broad. What all these groups have in common is their suspected link to aliens. We could try making the second name "alien" and use a different name for the second group: alt.alien.ufos - aerial sightings, close encounters of 1st and 2nd kind alt.alien.meetings - close encounters of 3rd and 4th kinds, abductions alt.alien.circles - crop circles, unidentified ground markings alt.alien.mutilations - strange mutilations alt.alien.coverups - official coverups, disinformation, harrassments Now there is a problem with the first, third and fourth groups -- the presumed link to "aliens" is too strong while other explanations remain open. That leaves one other possibility, using two 2nd-level names: alt.alien.coverups - official coverups, disinformation, harrassments alt.alien.meetings - close encounters of 3rd and 4th kinds, abductions alt.anomaly.circles - crop circles, unidentified ground markings alt.anomaly.mutilations - strange mutilations alt.anomaly.ufos - aerial sightings, close encounters of 1st and 2nd kind This last looks to me like the best solution so far. Perhaps others have some better ideas. Two 2nd-level names convey the degree of certainty of the alien connection to the events discussed. Some of the postings now made to alt.paranormal might also belong to new groups under alt.anomaly if they concern specific events that suggest something alien, as distinct from something mystical or supernatural. --- jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net Jon Roland Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A, Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!att!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Subject: Re: NASA's Block of Ice! Organization: AT&T Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 03:34:27 GMT Message-ID: <1992Jul24.033427.19836@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Summary: ufo vs ice chunk - flash, it moved References: <1992Jul23.131612.26963@ucc.su.OZ.AU> Lines: 17 In article <1992Jul23.131612.26963@ucc.su.OZ.AU>, jasonh@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Jason Haines) writes: > I have just viewed the footage taken from the Space Shuttle, as shown on > Hard Copy (the Australian version), and I must say it is very interesting. > I finally got to view this segment on Larry King(and taped it). It looked convincing if one could only ignore that Flash just prior to the chunk changing direction. The flash had to cause the direction change(or quite a coincidence of timing). The other streak one views after the [ice] moves away seems unrelated as it's tragectory is farther left of the [ice]and could be anything. Anyway, the large flash on the left, and the coincidental zip of the object away from the flash leaves me with ice in my mouth:-) I since erased the tape to move onto other audio-visual pastimes. barry-- Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10925 alt.alien.visitors:7521 sci.skeptic:27840 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: The Prime Directive Message-ID: <62695@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 92 22:36:43 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <62554@cup.portal.com> <62609@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Sorry everybody I don't have any time to read or post anything except this posting today. Catch you people later if possible. John Winston. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: WIR's [Was MIB] Message-ID: <1992Jul24.023517.18831@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Date: 24 Jul 92 02:35:17 GMT References: <1992Jul21.022007.4543@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <1992Jul22.133814.16273@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> Organization: AT&T Lines: 15 In article <1992Jul22.133814.16273@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au>, rxkgre@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Geof Evans) writes: > EIVERSO@cms.cc.wayne.edu writes: > > >In article <1992Jul21.022007.4543@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> > >rosch@cpdw.enet.dec.com (Ray Rosch) writes: > >I'd suggest you watch the movie: The Thin Blue Line, wherein we learn > >that the famous LIR was actually a LIO (Lady in Orange). > > <<<* Hey I really dig the sense of humour that this group seems to be developing "No maam...we're musicians" > UFO's are *serious* business but you gotta laugh...least I do. > Yes, I agree. I like to have fun sometimes-please no offense to the really,really serious buffs out there:-) barry-- Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7523 sci.skeptic:27841 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!rutgers!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: astral travel Message-ID: <1992Jul24.040144.20572@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Date: 24 Jul 92 04:01:44 GMT References: <1992Jul22.193835.3751@acd4.acd.com> <62637@cup.portal.com> Followup-To: alt.aliens.visitors Organization: AT&T Lines: 11 In article <62637@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear Len. If you would learn to use these gifts such as telepathy > astral projection and a few others then no one would be able to lie > to you. Everyone would be an open book for you to read. > John Winston. You could work in the president's cabinet to weed out liars, cheats, frauds, and weazels. You could save this country! You could work for Judges, Lawyers, why even the RTC! Aw who am i kidding, John would be God. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7524 sci.skeptic:27844 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU!CARL From: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr Message-ID: <1992Jul24.071910.6659@cco.caltech.edu> Sender: news@cco.caltech.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: sol1.gps.caltech.edu Reply-To: carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU Organization: HST Wide Field/Planetary Camera References: <1992Jul19.003451.17413@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> <1992Jul20.184358.10709@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul21.002755.17265@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au>,<62660@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 07:19:10 GMT Lines: 22 In article <62660@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >It seems to me that a "mass detector" would be required. Such a detector >"should" be able to sense matter. Whether one would have the compute power >to resolve individual objects based on the massive (no pun! :-) sensory input >is another matter! > >Are not the effects of mass (and therefore gravity) instantaneously permeated >thoughout the (known) universe? Or hasn't this issue been resolved? I'm not >a physicist, so consider this as lay speculation/conjecture; I visit SLAC and >other such places, and I'm in awe of the experiments they conduct. Current theory says that gravitational waves do NOT travel instantaneously. If they DID travel instantaneously, there'd be no possibility of LIGO (Laser Interferometry Gravitational Observatory?) working. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!jcitro3 From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) Subject: Stealth Manuscript Message-ID: <1992Jul24.083433.12878@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 08:34:33 GMT Lines: 25 Someone posted an article in the last few weeks (in alt.alien.visitors) about a supposed politician whom had claimed to have been abducted. No names were given as to which politician this might be. However last night (23 July) I found the following article in TIME magazines July 27, 1992 issue. "Here Comes The Stealth Manuscript" "Booksellers are grinding their teeth over several big Ross Perot books that have been cancelled on the eve of publication. BUT SOMETHING BIGGER MAY BE COMING SOON (my emphasis). Putnam is preparing to ship more than 100,000 copies of a supersecret book in late August. The publisher is keeping both the subject and the author completely confidential. According to buyers for the major chains, Putnam executives have been whispering that it is a biography of a major Washington official that contains information so explosive it could cause his or her resignation. This has prompted a guessing game within the industry, but Putnam executives say only 'No Comment.'" Anticipation will antagonize me until late August! I certainly hope that this will not turn out to be hoax. Joseph A. Citro III jcitro3@odin.unomaha.edu Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7526 sci.skeptic:27848 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Erich Von Daniken Message-ID: <62705@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 02:17:24 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul23.091433.14378@newshub.sdsu.edu> <62658@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul23.170148.919@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Lines: 45 In article <1992Jul23.170148.919@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) writes: >In article <62658@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes in part: >|>[...] >|> Some actual (and identifiable) dinosaur footprints were present in the rock , >|> along with what appeared to me (and these were the ones labelled as "unknow n") >|> to be the tracks of a military jeep. Two parallel tracks with about a 5 fo ot >|> separation (for some 15 feet, in the slab fragment) which resembled today's >|> high-tech all-weather tire-treads. Tracks which were made millions of year s >|> ago. Incredible; I'll never forget that sight; and when I uttered that thou ght >|> out loud (I was only about 8 years old then), everyone turned around and >|> looked at me strangely, yet no-one made any comments or smiled. [ See belo w ] > >Incredible is the word. This would be a lot harder to understand if I >hadn't read the classic science fiction story of that time from which >this little joke was taken. If it's a joke, then it's one on me [for I was there]. However, I'm not going to "defend" my remembrance since nearly 40 years have elapsed (this was about 1952-1953; we lived in the area from 1951 to 1956). And at that (original) time I was in the company of my Dad who desired to tour the entire Museum in one day (he was like that; and the museum occupied an entire city block [it was HUGE]). Next time I'm in DC, I'll make a point to re-visit that Smithsonian exhibit and attempt to collect more info; this cannot be until at least mid-1993. One correspondent commented that perhaps the tracks were those of amphibians' flippers. 'Spossible (and more plausible!) All I stated was that the tracks bore a resemblance to tire tracks, NOT that they were tire tracks! :-) As for science-fiction, could not the author have seen the same exhibit which stimulated HIS story? Have you a reference [title, author, etc.]? Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7527 sci.skeptic:27849 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr Message-ID: <62706@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 02:43:20 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul21.002755.17265@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <62660@cup.portal.com> Lines: 26 In article cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes: | [...] | The idea behind special relativity is that information cannot be conveyed | from place to place at a velocity exceeding the speed of light. Since | gravity betrays the presence of matter its effects cannot propogate | faster than the speed of light. Another way to look at it that gravity | like other forces is conveyed by bosons. Bosons, depending on if they | are massive or not travel at the below or at the speed of light | respectively. | [...] Nicely explained; thanks! (Ever think of becoming a science writer? :-) Now we have the problem of the Black Hole (I need to get a copy of Hawkings' book(s)): given that a BH is so massive it prevents photon emission, can one infer that gravity "outreaches" light? I thought photons were massless, so what is the attractor? Must the answer await the formulation of a Unified Field Theory? Could a BH be detectable by OTHER than observed perturbations of other masses? In other words: does a BH radiate "anything", or is it the ABSENCE of radiation and other energies that defines an instance or the presence of a BH? Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7528 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1989 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!siesoft!imw From: imw@siesoft.co.uk (Ian Wild) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Tachyons (was Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr Message-ID: <1992Jul24.151247.18524@siesoft.co.uk> Date: 24 Jul 92 15:12:47 GMT References: <1992Jul23.105148.13665@kth.se> Sender: news@siesoft.co.uk (Usenet News) Organization: Siemens Nixdorf Information Systems Ltd. Lines: 19 X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4 tordm@vana (Tord Malmgren) writes: : In article <1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl>, spiering@fys.ruu.nl (Geert Spiering) writes: : : [...] : >However there may be particles that ALWAYS travell at velocities > c. : >The catch is, that these particles would have to have imaginary masses. : [...] : : as far as I understood Einstein's relativity it was only valid with speeds : less than "c", and what happened with speeds larger than "c" it could not : predict, so as far as I understand these Tachyons need not possess imaginary : mass at all; maybe they could be real, but how they got into that state no : theory tells us... : Wouldn't tachyons have to travel at >c relative to *everything*? Including themselves? imw Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10931 alt.alien.visitors:7529 sci.skeptic:27852 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: The Prime Directive Message-ID: <62709@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 06:18:19 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <62554@cup.portal.com> <62609@cup.portal.com> <62695@cup.portal.com> Lines: 9 Dear Fellow Earthlings: Here it is Friday morning 0607 and things look pretty good. If it's God's will and if the creek doesn't rise I hope to go down to Southern Calif. and go on a tour of the ruins of a 30,000 year old city. In case we ever accomplish something with all of this astral projection project and other things be sure and don't think it's something that I did or figured out myself. It's like the western song, I've got friends in low places, except just the opposite. John Winston. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Linesj Message-ID: <62710@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 06:21:45 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <62440@cup.portal.com> <62518@cup.portal.com> <62582@cup.portal.com> <+6fmdv@lynx.unm.edu> <62611@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Dear Everybody: I'll be going on a tour of an acient city this Sunday. John Winston. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7531 sci.skeptic:27853 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: astral travel Message-ID: <62711@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 06:25:46 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul22.193835.3751@acd4.acd.com> <62637@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul24.040144.20572@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Lines: 4 Dear Friend and the rest of you people: I don't have time right now to talk. I hope to go on a tour of an ancient city this Sunday, see ya later. John Winston. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ***Good_Luck_for_Your_Astral_Convey*** Message-ID: <62712@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 06:28:09 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul23.144307.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> Lines: 3 Dear John H. Haven't any time but will comment on this later. John Winston. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7533 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1990 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!umeecs!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: Supraluminal v (was Re: Elapsed Time near c ) Message-ID: <9thm!zg@lynx.unm.edu> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 13:52:32 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <1992Jul22.150401.15820@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl> Lines: 18 In article cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes: >In article <1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl> spiering@fys.ruu.nl (Geert Spiering) writes: >>I hope this adds to the discussion, but since everyone keeps repeating >>the statement that nothing can travel faster than light, i would like > >Hmm, what velocity do photons travel at? I think you mean to say >that nothing with a rest mass can travel at c. Opps, scratch that statement I apparently can't read, and also to save everyone else the bother I'll go ahead and flame myself: You stupid, blithering, idiot; CAN'T YOU EVEN READ YOUR NATIVE TONGUE! Ithlial Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rphroy!caen!umeecs!umn.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: zeta reticuli? Message-ID: <4whmq#-@lynx.unm.edu> Date: 24 Jul 92 15:03:33 GMT References: <1992Jul23.141246.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 41 In article <1992Jul23.141246.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes: >In article , cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes: >> Another thing to think about is if the star had been a supernovae >> candidate it would have been a red giant. Which means that (a) it >> would have been around apparent mag -6 or so and (b) it would have >> engulfed or nearly engulfed any planets with orbtial radii similar >> to the earth's (ie the range of orbital radii within which it is >> thought necessary for a planet to have to be habital.) >> >> Ithlial > >Just to be the >:-)> advocate: would not the "comfort zone" for planetary >radii be moved outward for a star massive enough to become a red giant? >Not that the fact that the star turned into a red giant would not destroy >the environment of any habitable planet no matter what its orbital radii >was (or that such a star would not stick around long enough to evovle >higher life.) You're entirely correct in saying that the comfort zone (CZ) will move out. Unfortunately you guess that the red giant phase is too short is also true. Usually the phase lasts a few 100 million years, in addition the luminosity is fluctating which will cause the CZ to move (although not as much as the intially change to red giant caused it too move. Note that lower forms of life like algaes and the like took a billion years to evolve. > >Thomas Freebairn * I wish I had an employer > * whose opinions mine were not. Ithlial My opinions, mine, mine, mine! I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go, "What, was THAT?!" Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: REQUEST: Roswell information; and how to get more Message-ID: <1992Jul24.151859.118@crc.ac.uk> Date: 24 Jul 92 15:18:59 GMT References: <20JUN199221455246@zeus.tamu.edu> <61899@cup.portal.com> <62320@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@crc.ac.uk Reply-To: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK Lines: 25 Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium In article <62320@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear Steve: > It's good to hear that Stanton Friedman's book Crash at Corona is out. > I once mentioned to Stan that I didn't believe exactly like he did and > he would probubly call me and my friends a bunch of kooks. He mentioned > that he had work with some pretty weird people before. Anyway he > sticks with what he is doing and came out with the book. > John Winston. No you have it wrong John, Stan would not call you a kook, he prefers to call people who are not true believers as 'noisy negativists'. :) :) I think that having a second team in the form of Kevin Randle and Don Schmit actively investigating the Roswell case is a good thing. They challenge a number of statements Stan makes and he returns the compliment. At times it looks as if World War Three is going on between them, but I guess it makes them all check what they say. Steve. -- (Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. Phone: +44 81 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7536 sci.skeptic:27857 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!decwrl!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr Message-ID: Date: 24 Jul 92 16:08:46 GMT References: <62660@cup.portal.com> <62706@cup.portal.com> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 79 In article <62706@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >In article >cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes: > >| [...] >| The idea behind special relativity is that information cannot be conveyed >| from place to place at a velocity exceeding the speed of light. Since >| gravity betrays the presence of matter its effects cannot propogate >| faster than the speed of light. Another way to look at it that gravity >| like other forces is conveyed by bosons. Bosons, depending on if they >| are massive or not travel at the below or at the speed of light >| respectively. >| [...] > >Nicely explained; thanks! (Ever think of becoming a science writer? :-) > >Now we have the problem of the Black Hole (I need to get a copy of Hawkings' >book(s)): given that a BH is so massive it prevents photon emission, can one >infer that gravity "outreaches" light? I thought photons were massless, so >what is the attractor? Must the answer await the formulation of a Unified >Field Theory? > The reason that information about mass (and charge and angular momnetum) is conveyed to the universe out side the evet horizon is that the gravitons that mediate the gravitational field and the photons that mediate the electromagnetic field are what we call 'vitrual' particles. The aren't real in anyway that we know it, their existence is implied only by the force they mediate. Also we do know the state of the star before it becomes a black hole. So with a couple of conservation laws and some arithmetic we know what goes into the singularity, so we're not learning anything that we didn't know about before. The reason real photons can't get out can be thought of a couple of ways. One can assign the photon a mass based on the classical formula p = mv, where v=c for a photon. The momentum of a photon comes from the formual for total energy of a particle with no mass, E = pc. Beleive it or not this works, even though we're mixing relativistic and classical formulae. (In a side light the formula for calculating the event horizon can be done classically and it works out correctly too) So you use the mass that to calculate the force, and newton's F = dp/dt and you see that you need any infinte amount of momentum (ie energy) to escape from the event horizon and probably an imaginary amount to get out from within the EH. >Could a BH be detectable by OTHER than observed perturbations of other masses? >In other words: does a BH radiate "anything", or is it the ABSENCE of >radiation >and other energies that defines an instance or the presence of a BH? > The way that astronomers detect what are probably black holes is fairly straight forward. We observe a binary system in which on of the companions is emitting high energy radiation, like x-rays and gamma rays. In the type of binary system these obervations are made one companion is large, some type of giant star, red giants work best, while the other is compact and pulls material off the larger star. Red giants work best since they are largest and their outermost material is only loosely bound. Since it is emitting this high energy radiation, we know that the material must be very hot (ie posses alot of kinetic energy). The easiest way to get kinetic energy is to fall down, stairs, cliffs or the potential well of a massive object. So since the marterial is so energetic it must have fallen a long way, threfore the object that the stuff is falling onto is pretty small, ie smaller than a small star, even a white dwarf. Another way to put upper limits on size is by measuring the time scale over which the luminousity varies. The time scale time the speed of light is an absolute upperbound on the size of the region that's doing the varying. Anyhow if its smaller than a white dwarf it's a neutron star or a blackhole, which depends on the mass. Now since the stars are rotating about eachother at a rate we can measure we can with the help of the law of gravitation determine their masses. If the mass is too high for the neutron degeneracy to keep it from collapsing then it's a blackhole, otherwise it's a neutron star. Ithlial My opinions, mine, mine, mine! To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit eachother. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!rutgers!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: NASA's Block of Ice! Message-ID: Date: 24 Jul 92 16:45:03 GMT References: <#8gm_lc@lynx.unm.edu> <1992Jul24.031232.10196@news.unomaha.edu> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 22 In article <1992Jul24.031232.10196@news.unomaha.edu> jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) writes: >I do not claim to be a physicist or even a hobbiest of quantum mechanics, but >if the first object was indeed ice that moved due to the shuttle's engines >(or whatever) then why did the first object that clearly seems to be >furtherter >away move first? Would not the initial force applied by the shuttle act on >the nearer object first (supposed fired shot)? Accordingly, the UFO would not >have moved until the shot (or ice) arrived. Any explanations? > > Joseph A. Citro III > How can you say that any of the objects is clearly further away than any of the others? There aren't a lot of visual clues in the video that allow you to determine the distances of the ice flecks. Ithlial My opinions, mine, mine, mine! To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit eachother. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!polaris!sara.cc.utu.fi!shanwang From: shanwang@sara.cc.utu.fi Subject: Message-ID: <1992Jul24.201506.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> Lines: 1 Sender: usenet@polaris.utu.fi (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: sara.cc.utu.fi Organization: University of Turku, Finland Date: 24 Jul 92 20:15:06 EET Lines: 1 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!wupost!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!unmvax!constellation!neptune!aero From: aero@neptune.ecn.uoknor.edu (Aero Student Account) Subject: Re: ***Good_Luck_for_Your_Astral_Convey*** Message-ID: Sender: usenet@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu (Nets) Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA References: <1992Jul23.144307.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> <62712@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:35:50 GMT Lines: 16 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear John H. >Haven't any time but will comment on this later. >John Winston. Would someone please teach Mr. Winston about the subtleties and nuances which distinguish "followup" from "reply?" -------- Jonathan A. Bishop aero@neptune.ecn.uoknor.edu "Yippee! That may have been a small one for Neil, but it was a big one for me." --Pete Conrad Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!unmvax!constellation!neptune!aero From: aero@neptune.ecn.uoknor.edu (Aero Student Account) Subject: Re: Ley Linesj Message-ID: Sender: usenet@constellation.ecn.uoknor.edu (Nets) Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA References: <62440@cup.portal.com> <62518@cup.portal.com> <62582@cup.portal.com> <+6fmdv@lynx.unm.edu> <62611@cup.portal.com> <62710@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 16:34:33 GMT Lines: 17 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Everybody: >I'll be going on a tour of an acient city this Sunday. >John Winston. And I'll be going camping this weekend. (Just thought Everybody might like to know that). -------- Jonathan A. Bishop aero@neptune.ecn.uoknor.edu "Yippee! That may have been a small one for Neil, but it was a big one for me." --Pete Conrad Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!polaris!sara.cc.utu.fi!shanwang From: shanwang@sara.cc.utu.fi Subject: Re: NASA's Block of Ice! Message-ID: <1992Jul24.202447.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> Lines: 29 Sender: usenet@polaris.utu.fi (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: sara.cc.utu.fi Organization: University of Turku, Finland References: <1992Jul23.131612.26963@ucc.su.OZ.AU> <1992Jul24.033427.19836@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Date: 24 Jul 92 20:24:47 EET Lines: 29 >>In article <1992Jul24.033427.19836@cbnewsd.cb.att.com>, press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: >> In article <1992Jul23.131612.26963@ucc.su.OZ.AU>, jasonh@extro.ucc.su.OZ.AU (Jason Haines) writes: >> I have just viewed the footage taken from the Space Shuttle, as shown on >> Hard Copy (the Australian version), and I must say it is very interesting. >> >> I finally got to view this segment on Larry King(and taped it). >> >> It looked convincing if one could only ignore that Flash just >> prior to the chunk changing direction. The flash had to cause the >> direction change(or quite a coincidence of timing). >> The other streak one views after the [ice] moves away seems unrelated >> as it's tragectory is farther left of the [ice]and could be anything. >> >> Anyway, the large flash on the left, and the coincidental zip of >> the object away from the flash leaves me with ice in my mouth:-) >> I since erased the tape to move onto other audio-visual pastimes. >> >> Hi, Alexi, Thanks for your tape. That realy works. Good luck for your experiment. Have a enjoyable tour. By the way, take care of those bad potatos you deal with some days. I am busy now to write too many papers to my prof. So let me see, what will happen:) J.Hillman Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!gumby!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!bronze!indyvax.iupui.edu!tffreeba From: tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu Subject: Re: zeta reticuli? Message-ID: <1992Jul24.124506.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Lines: 17 Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: indyvax.iupui.edu Organization: Indiana University References: <1992Jul23.141246.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> <4whmq#-@lynx.unm.edu> Date: 24 Jul 92 12:45:06 -0500 In article <4whmq#-@lynx.unm.edu>, cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes: > In article <1992Jul23.141246.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes: >>In article , cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes: > > You're entirely correct in saying that the comfort zone (CZ) will move > out. Unfortunately you guess that the red giant phase is too short > is also true. Usually the phase lasts a few 100 million years, in addition > the luminosity is fluctating which will cause the CZ to move (although > not as much as the intially change to red giant caused it to move. > Ithlial Interesting point (that I had never thought about.) I was talking about main sequence lifetime for a star with enough mass to become red _super_ giant. Are not these the ones that reach such proportions? Thomas Freebairn Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7543 sci.skeptic:27861 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!m.cs.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!mcgrath From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) Subject: Re: Erich Von Daniken Message-ID: <1992Jul24.175845.18683@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Sender: news@m.cs.uiuc.edu (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager)) Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science References: <1992Jul23.091433.14378@newshub.sdsu.edu> <62705@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 17:58:45 GMT Lines: 25 In article <62705@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes in part: |> If it's a joke, then it's one on me [for I was there]. That's what I meant. I tend to suspect you could have seen a plaster cast of footprints with jeep tracks added. Easy enough to do. Pretty funny, too. |> As for science-fiction, could not the author have seen the same exhibit which |> stimulated HIS story? Have you a reference [title, author, etc.]? Yes, the causation could very well be the other way. If I had the reference I would have posted it. :-) I'm still searching. I think this was in a collection of short stories by Arthur C. Clarke. Anyone want to help out here? |> One correspondent commented that perhaps the tracks were those of amphibians' |> flippers. 'Spossible (and more plausible!) All I stated was that the tracks |> bore a resemblance to tire tracks, NOT that they were tire tracks! :-) Ahem. Actually, you were pretty darn certain that they were tire tracks in your previous posting. -- Robert E. McGrath Urbana Illinois mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!udel!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk From: revpk@cellar.org (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Wanted: Info On Mib Message-ID: Date: 22 Jul 92 16:55:52 GMT References: <62462@cup.portal.com> Sender: bbs@cellar.org (The Cellar BBS) Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system Lines: 19 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear People: If a person believes the Condon Report I truely feel > sorry for that person. We spent about 55,000 dollars on that report > to get information on the space people when we have recovered live > space people (the good type) from crashes. We subjest them to > questioning then when they don't answer us to give us their advanced > technology we put them in liquid nitrogen for extended periods of > time. Every so often we unthaw them and ask them some more questions. > If they don't give us the information we want then we refreeze them > again. It reminds me of the old song God's Going To Get You For That. Gee, and they say FUR kills. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano revpk@cellar.org "Best Reason Not to Vote for Perot-- If he wins, it might encourage Bill Gates to run." Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10937 alt.alien.visitors:7545 sci.skeptic:27865 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!exodus.Eng.Sun.COM!appserv.Eng.Sun.COM!sun!amdcad!sono!lawson From: lawson@acuson.com (Drew Lawson) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: The Prime Directive Message-ID: <1992Jul24.165240.16892@acuson.com> Date: 24 Jul 92 16:52:40 GMT References: <62554@cup.portal.com> <62609@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul23.182915.22178@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> <1992Jul23.191218.4759@walter.bellcore.com> Reply-To: lawson@aldia.UUCP (Drew Lawson) Organization: ACUSON, Mountain View, CA Lines: 10 In article <1992Jul23.191218.4759@walter.bellcore.com> mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch) writes: >I had a dream that grey empaths dressed in black had taken over New >Jersey..... But would anybody notice? -- Drew Lawson If you're not part of the solution, lawson@acuson.com you're part of the precipitate Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!pacbell.com!decwrl!world!world.std.com!tjh From: tjh@agni.world.std.com (Tim Hall) Subject: Re: Stealth Manuscript In-Reply-To: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu's message of Fri, 24 Jul 1992 08:34:33 GMT Message-ID: Sender: usenet@world.std.com (Mr USENET himself) Nntp-Posting-Host: agni.std.com Organization: Software Tool & Die References: <1992Jul24.083433.12878@news.unomaha.edu> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 18:50:33 GMT Lines: 35 In article <1992Jul24.083433.12878@news.unomaha.edu> jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) writes: Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: world!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!jcitro3 From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 08:34:33 GMT Lines: 25 . . . MAY BE COMING SOON (my emphasis). Putnam is preparing to ship more than 100,000 copies of a supersecret book in late August. The publisher is keeping both the subject and the author completely confidential. According to buyers for the major chains, Putnam executives have been whispering that it is a biography of a major Washington official that contains information so explosive it could cause his or her resignation. This has prompted a guessing game within the industry, but Putnam executives say only 'No Comment.'" Joseph A. Citro III jcitro3@odin.unomaha.edu The Boston Globe reported that a scathing book on Ted Kennedy is supposed to come out soon. It is written by a former (disgruntled?) aide and is supposed to contain lots of dirt. Sounds like what you mention above. -- -Tim I'm not trying to kill myself. I just don't want to feel. (unknown) Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7547 sci.skeptic:27875 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!ldoering From: ldoering@engin.umich.edu (Laurence Doering) Subject: Time's Arrow (fossil tire tracks) Message-ID: <3dS-gcA@engin.umich.edu> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 15:37:18 EDT Organization: University of Michigan Engineering, Ann Arbor References: <1992Jul23.091433.14378@newshub.sdsu.edu> <62705@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul24.175845.18683@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: joe.engin.umich.edu Lines: 23 In article <1992Jul24.175845.18683@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes: >In article <62705@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes in part: >|> If it's a joke, then it's one on me [for I was there]. >That's what I meant. > >I tend to suspect you could have seen a plaster cast of footprints >with jeep tracks added. Easy enough to do. Pretty funny, too. > >|> As for science-fiction, could not the author have seen the same exhibit which >|> stimulated HIS story? Have you a reference [title, author, etc.]? >Yes, the causation could very well be the other way. > >If I had the reference I would have posted it. :-) I'm still searching. >I think this was in a collection of short stories by Arthur C. Clarke. >Anyone want to help out here? I don't remember the name of the short story collection, but the story is called "Time's Arrow", and is by Arthur C. Clarke. (Paleontologists travel back in time with jeep & equipment, never return; colleagues later discover fossil jeep tire tracks overlaid with carnivorous dinosaur footprints, with increasing spacing, as if the dinosaur was CHASING SOMETHING...) ljd Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!wupost!gumby!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!jcitro3 From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) Subject: Re: NASA's Block of Ice! Message-ID: <1992Jul24.201947.19093@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha References: Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 20:19:47 GMT Lines: 37 cary@carina.unm.edu writes: > In article <1992Jul24.031232.10196@news.unomaha.edu> jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) writes: > >I do not claim to be a physicist or even a hobbiest of quantum mechanics, but > >if the first object was indeed ice that moved due to the shuttle's engines > >(or whatever) then why did the first object that clearly seems to be > >furtherter > >away move first? Would not the initial force applied by the shuttle act on > >the nearer object first (supposed fired shot)? Accordingly, the UFO would not > >have moved until the shot (or ice) arrived. Any explanations? > > > > Joseph A. Citro III > > > How can you say that any of the objects is clearly further away than any > of the others? There aren't a lot of visual clues in the video that allow > you to determine the distances of the ice flecks. > > Ithlial > > > My opinions, mine, mine, mine! > > To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, > and the dancers hit eachother. There is a problem determining depth and distance with the type of camera used to tape the possible UFO event by the shuttle. However, it is not impossible to do so. The camera used operates very similar to night vision devices used in the military. I have had extensive use of this type of equipment. Particularly, what are called PV-S5 night vision goggles, and the PV-S2 starlight scope. If it were impossible to determine depth and distance with these devices it would not be possible to use them for hitting enemy targets. Yes, it is my opinion that the object that moved first was further away. But, my opinon is based on experience with similar equipment. Joseph A. Citro III Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10938 alt.alien.visitors:7550 sci.skeptic:27877 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!caen!nic.umass.edu!noc.near.net!hri.com!merrimack.edu!caina From: caina@merrimack.edu Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: The Prime Directive Message-ID: <1992Jul24.144455.2016@merrimack.edu> Date: 24 Jul 92 14:44:55 GMT References: <62554@cup.portal.com><1992Jul22.153119.375@talon.ucs.orst.edu><1992Jul22.174720.16281@m.cs.uiuc.edu> <62609@cup.portal.com> Organization: Merrimack College, No. Andover, MA, USA Lines: 26 In article <62609@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear Everybody: I don't have time to say much. A person by the name > of Kumar in Germany has been sending me E-mail and my E-mail has not > been getting back to him so I sent him a telepathic message. He wrote > me yesterday that he was aware of me sending him a telepathic message > and that I had woken him up and had also appeared in his dreams. This > has happened to me and other people before. On sunday and monday nights > I did a little warm up astral projection. Remember tonight at 1100 PM > it the time we'll do the experiment. > John Winston. Now this is good...From now on when I call someone and the line is busy... I'll send them a telepathic message. Why do I get the feeling you believe you've talked to Elvis in your local K-mart? Now kids...Pay attention, By smoking some weird foreign substance, you too can post weird messages. Alex ***************************************************************************** Stand your ground, Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war...let it begin here! Captain Parker April 19, 1775 Battle of Lexington ***************************************************************************** Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7551 sci.skeptic:27887 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!apple!news.oc.com!convex!swarren From: swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr Message-ID: <1992Jul24.220747.18157@news.eng.convex.com> Sender: usenet@news.eng.convex.com (news access account) Nntp-Posting-Host: magnum.convex.com Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA References: <62660@cup.portal.com> <62706@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 22:07:47 GMT X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and not necessarily those of CONVEX. Lines: 51 In article <62706@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >Now we have the problem of the Black Hole (I need to get a copy of Hawkings' >book(s)): given that a BH is so massive it prevents photon emission, can one >infer that gravity "outreaches" light? I thought photons were massless, so >what is the attractor? Must the answer await the formulation of a Unified >Field Theory? Well, this is a lot more complex than special relativity; the effects of black holes are described by the general theory of relativity. Basically general relativity says that a gravitational field is equivalent to a reference frame that is accelerating at a rate equal to the gravitational acceleration of the field. Obviously this changes depending on where you are in the field, but you get the idea. Light cannot escape from a black hole because it is infinitely red-shifted as it journeys through the gravitational field, to the point that it no longer contains any energy. >Could a BH be detectable by OTHER than observed perturbations of other masses? >In other words: does a BH radiate "anything",or is it the ABSENCE of radiation >and other energies that defines an instance or the presence of a BH? There will probably be some innaccuracies here, so be patient, but here is the mechanism as I understand it: Apparently the background quantum fluctuations that constantly percolate throughout the universe provide a mechanism for radiation to be emitted from a black hole. Quantum theory provides for a finite non-zero proba- bility that at any point in space and time a particle and its anti- particle may spontanously come into existance out of "nothing". Under normal circumstances these "virtual particles" instantly annihilate one another. The energy from the annihilation never really existed; the virtual particles came into existance owing the universe for their mass, so when they annihilate each other they simply disappear without emitting any photons or other particles. At the edge of a black hole, on the boundary between escape and consumption, these virtual particles form and are ripped apart by tidal forces before they can recombine. The black hole consumes one of them, and the other escapes. The mass for the particle that escapes comes out of the mass of the black hole. This is a form of quantum tunneling similar to what happens electrically in a tunnel diode. Only this time it is a gravity well that the particle "tunnels" out of, rather than an electrical potential well. The result is that black holes gradually evaporate over time. The rate is very slow, however. -- _. --Steve ._||__ Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer Warren v\ *| ----------------------------------------------- V Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7552 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1991 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!ucla-se!seashell!mitch From: mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr Message-ID: <7696@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> Date: 24 Jul 92 23:31:57 GMT References: <1992Jul21.002755.17265@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> Sender: news@SEAS.UCLA.EDU Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: Cyberdyne Systems Lines: 28 In article aero@titan.ecn.uoknor.edu (Aero Student Account) writes: >it seems you think you accept relativity. But the second part shows that you >have a faulty understanding of it. NOTE: RELATIVITY PROHIBITS TRAVEL AT >C OR ABOVE!!!! PERIOD. Furthermore, relativity prohibits the transmission >of any information by any means at speeds faster than light. Idle speculation from someone whose ignorance of physics is massive (pun intended): Does the influence of gravity act instantaneously? Suppose you had a mass detector of some sort, and you were detecting mass X at a distance of say, 1 LY. If that mass were moved suddenly, wouldn't your mass detector note the movement instantly? What glaring blunder have I committed? Bonus Round related question: Do two masses always interact gravitationally, regardless of the distance between them? I mean "at all", not "negligible". I know, there are more appropriate forums for this stuff, but hey, I'm not going to parade my ignorance in front of the _smart_guys_. -- DISCLAIMER: | Bob Mitchell "Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | mitch@ea.ucla.edu "Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified] "Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy | 1987 VT700c Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!ucla-se!seashell!mitch From: mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: zeta reticuli Message-ID: <7697@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> Date: 24 Jul 92 23:47:22 GMT References: <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Sender: news@SEAS.UCLA.EDU Organization: Cyberdyne Systems Lines: 30 In article <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes: >To heck with how the Pleiadians ships work or how fast they go. HOW DID >THEY EVOLVE SO DARN FAST? The Pleiades are bright young stars still >within their nebular cocoon. They are along the order of millions of >years old. It took life on Earth more than 4 billion years to evolve >to the point where it could walk upright, talk, and dream silly dreams. >Are the Pleidians child prodigies? Btw the first prokaryotes didn't >evolve here until a billion years or so after the formation of Earth. >Thomas Freebairn I think the New Age Crystalbabble party line is that the Pleiadians were seeded by an elder race; they did not originally evolve in what is now their home system. As for the Pleiades, how far away are they? You would want to add their distance to their apparent age (as viewed from Earth) to get the actual age, right? Also, if evolution is driven in part by genetic mutation caused by stellar radiation, can we expect it to "happen faster" in binary or trinary star systems? Have I convinced everyone that a liberal arts education is truly worthless? :-) -- DISCLAIMER: | Bob Mitchell "Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | mitch@ea.ucla.edu "Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified] "Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy | 1987 VT700c Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7554 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1992 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!west.West.Sun.COM!smaug.West.Sun.COM!richard From: Richard.Mathews@West.Sun.COM (Richard M. Mathews) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Tachyons (was Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr Date: 25 Jul 1992 00:19:37 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 18 Message-ID: <14q6mpINNg3b@smaug.West.Sun.COM> References: <1992Jul23.105148.13665@kth.se> <1992Jul24.151247.18524@siesoft.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: astro Originator: richard@astro.West.Sun.COM imw@siesoft.co.uk (Ian Wild) writes: >Wouldn't tachyons have to travel at >c relative to *everything*? Including >themselves? Tachyons are truly bizarre. Two of them going at >c straight at each other would actually be going at References: <6200@bar.puke.astral.com> Lines: 5 Hi Everyone, I'm gonna get totally jaked and blow lunch this sunday. later, barry-- Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10945 alt.alien.visitors:7556 sci.skeptic:27889 Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <62755@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 19:09:05 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <62479@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Dear Doug: It sounds like you have a clear alert mind and your not afraid to stand out from the other people and say what you think. John Winston. Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10946 alt.alien.visitors:7557 sci.skeptic:27890 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <62762@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 20:12:27 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <62479@cup.portal.com> <62755@cup.portal.com> Lines: 11 Dear Astral Folks: The results of the first weekly Astral Convoy was as follows the person we called E started his astral journey in good order hitching up with me (I think) and I got a picture of a male person sort of handsome, looking out to his left and my right. He is white. We then went over to Hawaii and woke up a lady whoes first name starts with the letter K (I think). She woke up at 3:30 am with E. by her side. Gregg didn't make contact as far as he knows. I don't know what happened to Shannon and I didn't send him a picture of myself yet. I thought Kumar was in Germany but he was actually in Penn. USA and he couldn't get himself in the proper mood to receive me. We now have Linda in England that wants to get in on this. Remember anybody that wants in, each Wed. 1100 PM Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10947 alt.alien.visitors:7558 sci.skeptic:27892 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Organization: AT&T Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 04:04:17 GMT Message-ID: <1992Jul25.040417.22282@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Followup-To: alt.aliens.visitors References: <62479@cup.portal.com> <62762@cup.portal.com> Lines: 41 In article <62762@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear Astral Folks: The results of the first weekly Astral Convoy was as > follows the person we called E started his astral journey in good order > hitching up with me (I think) and I got a picture of a male person sort of How does this astral travel work, i.e., "you think" you hooked up with E? Are you in a fog? > handsome, looking out to his left and my right. He is white. We then went Just curious, how can this guy be perceived as handsome, when you are not even sure who you hook up with? > over to Hawaii and woke up a lady whoes first name starts with the letter > K (I think). She woke up at 3:30 am with E. by her side. Gregg didn't How do you know you were in hawaii? > make contact as far as he knows. I don't know what happened to Shannon Greg might have hooked-up but doesn't know? > and I didn't send him a picture of myself yet. I thought Kumar was in > Germany but he was actually in Penn. USA and he couldn't get himself in So you quickly left germany and headed for penn? > the proper mood to receive me. We now have Linda in England that wants to > get in on this. Remember anybody that wants in, each Wed. 1100 PM Maybe you were hooked-up with sannon and didn't know it? Is LSD a prerequisite to astral travel? How much is taken? I'm curious 'cause your report sounds disjointed and rather vague. Thanks P.S. No thanks on the astral offer. If you don't even know who you are traveling with, you could run into some astral thugs, unless of course thugs don't travel astral. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!bronze!indyvax.iupui.edu!tffreeba From: tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu Subject: Re: zeta reticuli Message-ID: <1992Jul25.004507.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Lines: 36 Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: indyvax.iupui.edu Organization: Indiana University References: <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> <7697@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> Date: 25 Jul 92 00:45:07 -0500 In article <7697@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>, mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes: > In article <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes: >>To heck with how the Pleiadians ships work or how fast they go. HOW DID >>THEY EVOLVE SO DARN FAST? The Pleiades are bright young stars still >>within their nebular cocoon. They are along the order of millions of >>years old. It took life on Earth more than 4 billion years to evolve >>to the point where it could walk upright, talk, and dream silly dreams. >>Are the Pleidians child prodigies? Btw the first prokaryotes didn't >>evolve here until a billion years or so after the formation of Earth. >>Thomas Freebairn > > I think the New Age Crystalbabble party line is that the > Pleiadians were seeded by an elder race; they did not originally > evolve in what is now their home system. Yes? >As for the Pleiades, > how far away are they? You would want to add their distance to > their apparent age (as viewed from Earth) to get the actual age, > right? No. > Also, if evolution is driven in part by genetic mutation caused > by stellar radiation, can we expect it to "happen faster" in > binary or trinary star systems? Yes and no. > Have I convinced everyone that a liberal arts education > is truly worthless? :-)> Maybe. Thomas Freebairn Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!uchinews!msuinfo!starfish.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Abduction case Message-ID: <1992Jul25.074803.16363@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 25 Jul 92 07:48:03 GMT References: <1992Jul19.022329.22455@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Sender: wilbur@starfish.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 48 In article , nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: |> In article <1992Jul19.022329.22455@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> wilbur@oyster.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) writes: |> >I talked to a leading researcher two weeks ago, and he informed me about the |> >abduction case that happened in New York. Someone posted that case earlier. |> > |> >The incident was witnessed by all those people who were on the Brooklyn Bridge, |> >and by the people who were below (on the street ). |> > |> >The VERY high ranking official was not disclosed to me. I was told, however, that |> >the official's Secret Service agents witnessed these happenings. It was these |> >agents that contacted Bud Hopkins. |> > |> >The incident happened in 1989, and this official has not made up his mind yet |> >as to whether he will disclose what he witnessed. |> > |> >My source personally knows just about every UFO researcher, and was one of the |> >key people in organizing the conference at MIT a month ago. |> > |> >He an about 7 other researchers have been specifically doing MASSIVE research |> >on the Roswel crash. They have uncovered many things that have never been |> >uncovered before. |> |> Talk is cheap. But frankly we've been hearing this kind of stuff |> for decades now and nobody has ever provided any tangible evidence. |> |> How would Mr. Wilbur like it if I claimed that I have secret information |> that absolutely proves that he's making this all up due to some basic |> mental instability and that I've talked to doctors and other specialists |> who can confirm his condition, but at the moment choose not to do so? |> |> I say put up or shut up. |> |> |> ---peter |> |> I guess, now I know what its like to be on the other side... Oouch. Ya have to bite your tongue on this side. Well, at this point, I dont have any of the privy info. But, the gentleman that I speak of is a very respected analyst. A person who people from both sides of the controversy come to for opinion/help. Mike Corbin is one of those people, for example. Brick Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Wanted: Info On Mib Message-ID: <139332.2A707319@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 24 Jul 92 20:43:02 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - The bottom of this posting got cut off. Mike, can you post the > remaining info?...Tom I will send it to you via email so it won't take up any more bandwidth than needed here. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Request: Roswell Information; And How To Get More Message-ID: <139333.2A70731B@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 24 Jul 92 20:58:05 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Let's recap: > > Moore and Berlita originally claimed ONE rash near Roswell, and > the > recovery of FOUR bodies. > > Randle and Schmittclaim ONE crash 150 miles west of Roswell, the > > recovery of THREE bodies and one LIVE alien. > > Friedman claims TWO crashes, the first in Roswell with four > corpses, > and the second at Randle > s location with three corpses and one live one. > > Friedman maintains that the MJ-12 papers are genuine, in spite > of a) > near-certain proof that they're counterfeit, and b) it contradicts his > two-crash theory. The papers mention only the Roswell crash. > > When asked about this contradiction, Friedman merely replied, > "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." Well, whuppee. That's > certainly a solid answer. Let's do the recap again ... 1) Moore and Berlitz write about the alleged crash of a flying disk near Corona, New Mexico in 1947. This material is developed as a result of a witness coming forward and approaching Stanton Friedman. The witness is Jesse Marcel, the intelligence officer stationed at Roswell Army Air Base in 1947, when the crash occurred. During the Moore investigation, Mac Brazel is also interviewed, as well as others. 2) Kevin Randle and Don Schmitt begin a more in-depth investigation of the crash story and interview almost 300 witnesses who were either directly involved or indirectly involved in the handling of the wreckage of the downed craft. Additional, important information was found in this investigation, including the exact amount of flights needed to remove the wreckage to Carswell AFB and then subsequently to Wright-Patterson. Hence, the publishing of the book, UFO Crash at Roswell. 3) Stanton T. Friedman was contacted by Gerald Anderson as a result of a program aired on Unsolved Mysteries concerning the Roswell crash. Anderson claims that he was present at a crash site in 1947, at the age of 5 years old and observed the craft and bodies of aliens. However, he was not near Corona, New Mexico when this happened. His testimony claims that he was with his father, uncle and others in the Plains of San Agustin, which is about 250 miles west of the Corona crash site. The dates of this occurrance coincide with the July crash observed at Corona. Friedman surmises that there was a mid-air collision between two saucers, which brought one down at Corona and one in the Plains. Friedman's just released book, Crash at Corona, details the investigation of Anderson's claims. At present, there is considerable controversy over the veracity of Anderson's testimony. Randle and Schmitt claim that Anderson gave them a couple of different versions on tape and that his story was too inconsistent. Friedman, on the other hand, feels that Anderson is the real thing. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Men In Black Message-ID: <139331.2A707317@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 24 Jul 92 20:42:01 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Yes, Barker was definitely "pulling peoples' chain" with just about > everything he wrote. If anyone did anything the least bit strange, he > would suggest "was X visited by (gasp!) the Three Men???????". > > James Moseley, one of the *least-silent* individuals in UFOlogy today, > was claimed by Barker in "They Knew Too Much about Flying Saucers" to > have > been silenced by the MIB during the 1950s. Moseley obviously views the > whole thing as a big joke. If you ask him about it, he just smiles > and says, "I'm sorry, I'm not at liberty to discuss that!" What is your reading on John Keel, who also is a big proponent of the MIB stuff? Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!ubc-cs!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!takeuch From: takeuch@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Travis L Takeuchi) Subject: Re: REQUEST: Roswell information; and how to get more Message-ID: <1992Jul25.083631.4501@ccu.umanitoba.ca> Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada References: <1992Jul17.173640.17428@crc.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 08:36:31 GMT Lines: 13 > > Friedman maintains that the MJ-12 papers are genuine, in spite of a) >near-certain proof that they're counterfeit, and b) it contradicts his >two-crash theory. The papers mention only the Roswell crash. > >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano revpk@cellar.org Being a complete philistine, may I ask what is the near-certain proof that the MJ-12 papers are counterfeit? Thanx in advance, Dominic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <62785@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 06:32:29 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61373@cup.portal.com> Lines: 11 Dear Ley People: I will now put down Part 2 of the information from Shaari about ley lines.----So then this evening we'll devide it into two chapters. The first chapter is the mysterious {figures} that have occurred in the wheat fields across the planet and the second chapter is the mysterious markings of the Nasca Lines and I know there are hundreds and thousands more, but for purposes of this evening we'll start with these two. Recently I was involved in a discussion over the telephone with one of the researchers of these particular circular configurations in the wheat fields in Great Britain. {It was} a delightful discussion {because} he asked me what I thought they were, and again my background in the Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <62789@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 06:50:43 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61227@cup.portal.com> <61259@cup.portal.com> Lines: 11 ----Star Command, I am a commanber that deals with holographic healing. I deal with holographic symbols and I have spent a great deal of time in studying the akashic records, but as for as being involved with the research side of the Star Command I personally have not spent that much time in there. Now in meeting this week with beings who were particularly involved with the research side, certain things came to light. First and foremost is that the research that is being done in Great Britain, you'll find over 500 diferent types of symbols {alright?}. Some are larger some are smaller. Some of them are connected, almost like, {being} described as barbell type of connection, you have a circle {on either} end and Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10951 alt.alien.visitors:7567 sci.skeptic:27901 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <62794@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 07:24:02 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <62479@cup.portal.com> <62762@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul25.040417.22282@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Lines: 4 Dear Press: One of the problems of astral travel is that is of not very high frequency and you can run into some very low vibrational entities. John Winston Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <62792@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 07:08:05 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61258@cup.portal.com> Lines: 11 ---a straight line connecting them. The best symbology is just visualize it as a barbell. Others have been seen as a barbell with two little straight lines that are parallel and close together. The others are in more of a configuration that they look like a key, alright? There are {assumptions} and insinuations maybe these extraterrestials from another dimension are giving us keys or messages to other conciousnesses and that they are producing these kinds of signals to communicate to us. {In our chakras} the Star Command, it isn't so much that they are trying to to communicate to humanity in this specific symbolic language but that they are really monitoring the earth and they have been monitoring the earth at those particular ley lines and ley lines are electromagnetic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <62793@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 07:17:26 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61258@cup.portal.com> Lines: 9 ----earth lines that cross over in a grid pattern around the earth's surface. The Star Command has been monitoring these particular configurations for thousands of years and it is now that they are starting to infuse, meaning to {bring in} higher levels of healing energy. So they are combining both a vibratory quality of energy, a holographic quality of energy and specific light quality of energy. By light I mean specific colors of light. They are infusing those at the intersection points of these ley lines. End of Part 2. John Winston. Xref: news.uiowa.edu sci.skeptic:27902 alt.alien.visitors:7570 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Questions from an interested party Message-ID: <62795@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 07:32:32 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul13.072530.23475@u.washington.edu> <62009@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul15.202050.11320@hilbert.cyprs.rain.com> <62208@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul22.210958.18867@pony.Ingres.COM> Lines: 3 Dear Bob, kbq, Kevin, Jason, and Bill: I read your comments and it warms my heart. John Winston. Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10952 alt.alien.visitors:7571 sci.skeptic:27903 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <62796@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 07:47:52 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 11 Dear Fellow Earth Travellers: I will now put down the second part of the information that was sent to me by the lady that founded the Antahkarana Organization and she is also the person who put the information down that is found in this particular collection. This from Ashtar---We wish to inform those of Earth who work with us: NOW IS THE TIME TO UNITE into the oneness of purpose that will be required of you to create the vibration for us to land, and join hands, minds, and hearts in this joint endeavor between dimensions. As in the movie ET, when the finger of the alien ET touches the finger of Earth, so can the energies of higher frequencies reach and work with those in the third dimension. We wish --------------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10953 alt.alien.visitors:7572 sci.skeptic:27904 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <62797@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 07:59:35 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 11 ---to create this link with all of you in a stronger more personal way. We are offering you this opportunity ot create a happening on Earth of a magnitude that will change the destiny of man away from that of materialism and aggression and propel him into his next step of evolution in an easy way. This can be accomplihsed, my brothers and sisters of Earth, with the interlinking energies of the higher frequencies, the interstellar commands, and collective mankind. Man's continued insensitivity to the way he treats his fellow man and Mother Earth has the potential to create a cataclysm of a magnitude that can literally shift the poles of Earth and eliminated life as you know it. We wish to offer this helping hand to you, our brothers and sisters-- Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10954 alt.alien.visitors:7573 sci.skeptic:27905 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <62798@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 08:07:43 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 9 ---of Earth, by offering to land openly on your Earth by invitaion and sharing the knowledge we have gained with you. Then you too may live and BE IN LOVE, PEACE, HARMONY AND BROTHERHOOD together with all of Creation, linked to us and beyond to the Creator God. I am Astar, your star brother of the planet Venus working with Earth to assist in Her transformation into the higher frequencies of understanding known as the higher dimensions, or the GOLDEN AGE of Man. So be it Adonai, adonai, adonai. Messager, Jean Peterson. John Winston. Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10956 alt.alien.visitors:7574 sci.skeptic:27907 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!bu.edu!news.bbn.com!ingria From: ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: Date: 25 Jul 92 18:31:50 GMT References: <62479@cup.portal.com> <62762@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul25.040417.22282@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> Reply-To: ingria@BBN.COM Lines: 11 NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com In-reply-to: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com's message of Sat, 25 Jul 1992 04:04:17 GMT In article <1992Jul25.040417.22282@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) writes: P.S. No thanks on the astral offer. If you don't even know who you are traveling with, you could run into some astral thugs, unless of course thugs don't travel astral. ``This is the Mind Spider, checking in!'' -- Fritz Leiber, ``The Mind Spider'' -30- Bob Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv1!mach4!kfisher3 From: kfisher3@mach4.wlu.ca (kevin fisher U) Subject: Kill file Message-ID: <1992Jul25.184044.1606@mach4.wlu.ca> Summary: kill john winston Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 18:40:44 GMT Keywords: kill, john winston Lines: 14 HEO: Can someone tell me how to set up my kill file so I don't have to read John_-_Winston's IDIOT posts anymore? He's really getting annoying, especially when he continually violates nettiquitte by BLATANTLY IGNORING everyone's requests that he use e-mail for his personal babble. Mucho appreciated, -- Kevin Fisher UUCP:kfisher3@mach4.wlu.ca Physics & Computing '92 at WLU - - "I can't handle it!" "Come on and dim the lights; Switch on the strobe: Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv1!mach4!kfisher3 From: kfisher3@mach4.wlu.ca (kevin fisher U) Subject: Adamski?? Message-ID: <1992Jul25.185603.2889@mach4.wlu.ca> Summary: bogus or true? Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University Date: Sat, 25 Jul 92 18:56:03 GMT Keywords: george,adamski Lines: 16 Hello all: Does anyone know anything about one George Adamski, who seemingly wrote several books about alien visitors he had contact with? The only reason I bring him up is because his description of alien life is so different from the common (Grey) description. anks, -- Kevin Fisher UUCP:kfisher3@mach4.wlu.ca Physics & Computing '92 at WLU - - "I can't handle it!" "Come on and dim the lights; Switch on the strobe: Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10958 alt.alien.visitors:7578 sci.skeptic:27908 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!sun4nl!utrcu1!infnews!heksterb From: heksterb@cs.utwente.nl (Ben Hekster) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Jul25.204202.18317@cs.utwente.nl> Followup-To: sci.skeptic Sender: usenet@cs.utwente.nl Nntp-Posting-Host: utis96 Organization: University of Twente, Dept. of Computer Science References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <62796@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 20:42:02 GMT Lines: 22 In article <62796@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Fellow Earth Travellers: I will now put down the second part of the >information that was sent to me by the lady that founded the Antahkarana >[&c., &c.] As much an accomplishment as interstellar subhyperastral travelling may be, the Antahkaranians cannot be *that* highly advanced-- their e-mail messages always seems to be limited to exactly one screenful. Perhaps their terminal emulators don't implement scrolling..? I know, I bet they still use those old storage-tube displays, heh, heh. Just imagine what an absolute *pain* it would be to mail an Ant'an binaries-- having to split your uuencoded file into 20-line chunks . Remind me *never* to let one of these guys beta-test for me! On the other hand, I suppose that by now they must have developed some pretty neat shell scripts to do this sort of stuff. They *do* use UNIX, don't they, John? -- Ben `Hackster' Hekster | "He bides his time and thinks, heksterb@cs.utwente.nl | 'There must be more to life than this!'" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!dxcern!dscomsa.desy.de!vxdesy.desy.de!silverstein From: silverstein@vxdesy.desy.de Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr Message-ID: <1992Jul25.221109.1@vxdesy.desy.de> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Lines: 40 Sender: news@dscomsf.desy.de (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: vxdsya.desy.de Organization: (DESY, Hamburg, Germany) References: <1992Jul21.002755.17265@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <7696@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 22:11:09 GMT In article <7696@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>, mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes: > Idle speculation from someone whose ignorance > of physics is massive (pun intended): > > Does the influence of gravity act instantaneously? Suppose you had > a mass detector of some sort, and you were detecting mass X at > a distance of say, 1 LY. If that mass were moved suddenly, wouldn't > your mass detector note the movement instantly? What glaring blunder > have I committed? Gravity wave detectors have been built to detect such events as supernovae over long distances, but as far as I am aware, no positive measurements have been made yet (none of them were turned on when SN1987A was observed). However, it is believed that the gravitational force is transmitted at light speed, and not instantaneously. > > Bonus Round related question: > > Do two masses always interact gravitationally, regardless of the > distance between them? I mean "at all", not "negligible". > Yes, the gravitational force, like the electromagnetic force, is said to have an "infinite" range, which means that its effect is exactly zero only at an infinite separation. > I know, there are more appropriate forums for this stuff, but hey, > I'm not going to parade my ignorance in front of the _smart_guys_. > > -- > DISCLAIMER: | Bob Mitchell > "Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | mitch@ea.ucla.edu > "Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified] > "Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy | 1987 VT700c Sam Silverstein UW Madison department of Physics _NOT_ to be confused with UW Eau Claire, home of physicist ROBERT MCELWAINE! (geez...I kinda miss him in a way...;-) Xref: news.uiowa.edu sci.skeptic:27912 alt.alien.visitors:7580 Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!rosevax!aquarius!grante From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from an interested p Message-ID: <1992Jul25.193400.14718@rosevax.rosemount.com> Sender: news@rosevax.rosemount.com (USENET News administrator) Nntp-Posting-Host: aquarius Reply-To: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) Organization: Rosemount, Inc. References: <1992Jul22.210032.18308@pony.Ingres.COM> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 19:34:00 GMT Lines: 24 kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn) writes: : John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: : >write The Third Eye, a book that I love. Lobsang had an Englishman's : >body that was never in Tibet. He had been living as a Tibetian monk : >for many years then he made a switch with an Englishman who was ready to : >pass on anyway. : : Oh good god, John, you get more rabid by the month! : : On the other hand, you're almost as entertaining as scanning the tabloid : headlines in the supermarket checkouts. Keep it up! : Ah, but the tabloids have PICTURES! John will never be able to compete with the darling pictures of Nessie's baby, or the flying saucer sitting on the flight deck of the Nimitz that the Weekly World News had. Or is it the World Weekly News? Either way it's a great paper. -- Grant Edwards |Yow! I want to so HAPPY, the Rosemount Inc. |VEINS in my neck STAND OUT!! | grante@aquarius.rosemount.com | Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10959 alt.alien.visitors:7581 sci.skeptic:27914 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!rosevax!aquarius!grante From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Jul25.211253.17448@rosevax.rosemount.com> Sender: news@rosevax.rosemount.com (USENET News administrator) Nntp-Posting-Host: aquarius Reply-To: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) Organization: Rosemount, Inc. References: <62755@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 21:12:53 GMT Lines: 15 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: : Dear Doug: It sounds like you have a clear alert mind and your not : afraid to stand out from the other people and say what you think. : John Winston. Brilliant. Sounds like one of those statements you hear from astrologers with which at least 95% of the population will agree. (I'm not implying that the statement is false in Doug's case.) -- Grant Edwards |Yow! I am a jelly donut. I Rosemount Inc. |am a jelly donut. | grante@aquarius.rosemount.com | Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10960 alt.alien.visitors:7582 sci.skeptic:27918 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!bu.edu!wang!news From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <2324@israel.nysernet.org> Date: 25 Jul 92 22:50:06 GMT References: <09o7NB1w164w@uuisis.isis.org> <25cm61c@lynx.unm.edu><62477@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul20.233307.21535@hobbes.kzoo.edu><62557@cup.portal.com> <62580@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@wang.com Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org Followup-To: talk.religion.newage Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs Lines: 11 In <62580@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: Dear Dan: Your pretty cotton picking funny. Sounds like your having a good laugh out of all of this. I hope we all are. -- /|/-\/-\ I'll leave you with this saying: |__/__/_/ Being a BALD HERO is almost as FESTIVE as a TATTOOED |warren@ KNOCKWURST. / nysernet.org Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!titan From: titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Titanium Knight) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Stealth Manuscript Message-ID: Date: Fri, 24 Jul 92 21:40:47 CST References: <1992Jul24.083433.12878@news.unomaha.edu> Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB Lines: 29 > "Booksellers are grinding their teeth over several big Ross Perot books > that have been cancelled on the eve of publication. BUT SOMETHING BIGGER > MAY BE COMING SOON (my emphasis). Putnam is preparing to ship more than > 100,000 copies of a supersecret book in late August. The publisher is > keeping both the subject and the author completely confidential. According > to buyers for the major chains, Putnam executives have been whispering that > it is a biography of a major Washington official that contains information > so explosive it could cause his or her resignation. This has prompted a > guessing game within the industry, but Putnam executives say only > 'No Comment.'" > Anticipation will antagonize me until late August! I certainly hope that > this will not turn out to be hoax. Sounds interesting, but do you think it involves UFO/Aliens? When it comes out PLEASE leave some information on here. Even it dosen't involve UFOs, it could be a good book (if it's true). ______________ \ / // ______ \\ : . . : -O- __________/________________\__________ :T i t a n i u m: / \ __// \\__ : K n i g h t : /. . . . . . . \ : : \____________________________________________/ // / / / --- \ \ \ \X/ AMIGA _/_/_ _/ ----- \_ _\_\_ alt.alien.visitors ;--- (Titanium Knight) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64 ;E-mail: titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca ;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8 Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10961 alt.alien.visitors:7584 sci.skeptic:27920 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!hillman From: hillman@carina.unm.edu (Dan Hillman) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 09:46:56 GMT Organization: Holy Order of Quadra 950 Lust Lines: 23 In article <62580@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Dan: Your pretty cotton picking funny. Sounds like your having >a good laugh out of all of this. >John Winston. Dear John, Your (sic) right; I fudge my Levis in glee every time I see one of you're (sic) posts. I am amazed that fully half of the traffic of this newsgroup is comprised of your three-line messages ("I'm having an astral wank, everybody!"), empty posts (" "), and one-screen text dumps. Call me a skeptic, but I would think an intelligent life form who wanted information distributed would get in touch with someone who had a clue. -- | _ ;/ Dan Hillman |(")_/ "I'm right and you're not." hillman@carina.unm.edu |~~/ University of New Mexico |~/ Land of Fucking Enchantment Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7585 sci.skeptic:27921 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr Message-ID: <62839@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 05:04:00 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul21.002755.17265@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <7696@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> <1992Jul25.221109.1@vxdesy.desy.de> Lines: 34 If anyone else is receiving insulting email messages from: Greg Aicklen Research Engineering Associate Erik Jonsson School of Engineering and Computer Science University of Texas at Dallas then feel welcome to respond with my reply (enclosed) for which I relinquish all copyrights and place into the public domain for YOUR use as a reply. Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] ---------- begin enclosure [bad language follows; hit 'n' now if neccessary; tit for tat] "One should never assess a situation from the end of a conversation." And one shouldn't foam at the mouth without a clear understanding of what's transpired before YOUR transgression. And so what is YOUR problem? You jump in without any background (since you haven't established your veracity or credentials) or having apparently read any of the preceding OR following articles. Reminds me of all the pseudo- /pop-"scientists" who have their heads so far up their asshole they cannot see beyond their own shit: yes, this means YOU. Suggest you tone down your demeanor, become more civil, and get a life. No-one is forcing you to read the newsgroup; go back to alt.sex and beat your meat on your keyboard if that's how you get your jollies. ---------- end enclosure Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!demon!cix.compulink.co.uk!dingbat Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors From: dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk (Codesmiths) Subject: Re: Boy or Girl (was Re: e: Ley Lines) Cc: dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk Reply-To: dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 14:31:55 +0000 Message-ID: Sender: usenet@gate.demon.co.uk Lines: 15 In-Reply-To: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com [Mysterious stone walls] > My sources of information > say that they are about 22,000 or more years old. How is that date derived ? Do you have any more details on these walls (I've not heard of them before, but then I am on another continent !) Are they literally continuous walls, or are they lines of separate stones ? Are there any signs of deliberate stone-masonry on them ? Andy Dingley dingbat@cix.compulink.co.uk Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!wupost!tulane!ukma!hsdndev!dartvax!Frederick.A.Ringwald From: Frederick.A.Ringwald@dartmouth.edu (Frederick A. Ringwald) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Men In Black (mib) Message-ID: <1992Jul26.151223.19673@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Date: 26 Jul 92 15:12:23 GMT References: <139288.2A6C8CC9@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <1992Jul22.183227.6227@mprgate.mpr.ca> Sender: news@dartvax.dartmouth.edu (The News Manager) Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH Lines: 11 In article <1992Jul22.183227.6227@mprgate.mpr.ca> spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) writes: > If the Belgian government thought the UFOs were some kind of secret > American aircraft being tested (illegally) over their country, I would > expect them to "threaten" the Americans by allowing the *public* release > of *any* information they find out about the objects. But, such a threat would be much more effective if made in secret, i.e., those concerned in the U.S. Government would hear about it, but you wouldn't, as this itslef would be public disclosure! Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv1!mach4!kfisher3 From: kfisher3@mach4.wlu.ca (kevin fisher U) Subject: alt.alien.visitors crossposts Message-ID: <1992Jul26.165855.5157@mach4.wlu.ca> Summary: default crossposters Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University Date: Sun, 26 Jul 92 16:58:55 GMT Keywords: new.age Lines: 17 I have yet another question: Why is it these new.age people INSIST on crossposting by default with alt.alien.visitors? I don't see the connection between the silly hindu-buddhist-guru mix and the possibility of extra-terrestrial life, and I refuse to believe any of the garbage our friend JW keeps posting about "prime directives" and "space councils" and the like. Just a question from someone tired of tabloid-minded people... -- Kevin Fisher UUCP:kfisher3@mach4.wlu.ca Physics & Computing '92 at WLU - - "I can't handle it!" "Come on and dim the lights; Switch on the strobe: Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7589 sci.skeptic:27925 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!m.cs.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!mcgrath From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) Subject: Re: Erich Von Daniken Message-ID: <1992Jul26.202618.26209@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Sender: news@m.cs.uiuc.edu (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager)) Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science References: <1992Jul23.091433.14378@newshub.sdsu.edu> <62705@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 20:26:18 GMT Lines: 71 In article <62705@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes in part: |> In article <1992Jul23.170148.919@m.cs.uiuc.edu> |> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) writes: |> |> >In article <62658@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes |> in part: |> >|>[...] |> >|> Some actual (and identifiable) dinosaur footprints were present in the rock |> , |> >|> along with what appeared to me (and these were the ones labelled as "unknow |> n") |> >|> to be the tracks of a military jeep. Two parallel tracks with about a 5 fo |> ot |> >|> separation (for some 15 feet, in the slab fragment) which resembled today's |> >|> high-tech all-weather tire-treads. Tracks which were made millions of year |> s |> >|> ago. Incredible; I'll never forget that sight; and when I uttered that thou |> ght |> >|> out loud (I was only about 8 years old then), everyone turned around and |> >|> looked at me strangely, yet no-one made any comments or smiled. [ See belo |> w ] |> > |> >Incredible is the word. This would be a lot harder to understand if I |> >hadn't read the classic science fiction story of that time from which |> >this little joke was taken. |> |> If it's a joke, then it's one on me [for I was there]. |> |> However, I'm not going to "defend" my remembrance since nearly 40 years have |> elapsed (this was about 1952-1953; we lived in the area from 1951 to 1956). |> |> And at that (original) time I was in the company of my Dad who desired to |> tour the entire Museum in one day (he was like that; and the museum occupied |> an entire city block [it was HUGE]). |> |> Next time I'm in DC, I'll make a point to re-visit that Smithsonian exhibit |> and attempt to collect more info; this cannot be until at least mid-1993. |> |> One correspondent commented that perhaps the tracks were those of amphibians' |> flippers. 'Spossible (and more plausible!) All I stated was that the tracks |> bore a resemblance to tire tracks, NOT that they were tire tracks! :-) |> |> As for science-fiction, could not the author have seen the same exhibit which |> stimulated HIS story? Have you a reference [title, author, etc.]? |> |> Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] The idea appeared in the story "Times Arrow" by Arthur C. Clarke in 1952. The copy I have is in a the collection "Reach for Tomorrow", with the date 1956. In the preface there is the following interesting comment: "Times Arrow" is an example of how hard it is for the science-fiction writer to keep ahead of fact. The quite--at the time the story was written--imaginary discovery described in the tale now actually exists, and may be seen in the New York Natural History Museum. I think it most unlikely that the rest of the story will bome true . . . . Clearly, ACC made this up, and just about the right time for the museum to obtain one. ACC's comments open the question of whether there were two (or even more) copies of this unique artifact, which materialized just after he invented it! Time travel is a non-obvious business, even in reality. :-) Thanks to those who set me on the track of this reference. My ACC books are getting pretty dusty and lonely deep in the archives, a fate that they surely do not deserve. -- Robert E. McGrath Urbana Illinois mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.config:9028 alt.alien.visitors:7590 alt.paranormal:5497 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr From: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: RFD: Split, rename alt.alien.visitors Followup-To: alt.config Date: 27 Jul 1992 04:34:36 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 44 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: Reply-To: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com In article l6uu9rINN8qf@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM, jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) writes: >That leaves one other possibility, using two 2nd-level names: > >alt.alien.coverups - official coverups, disinformation, harrassments >alt.alien.meetings - close encounters of 3rd and 4th kinds, abductions >alt.anomaly.circles - crop circles, unidentified ground markings >alt.anomaly.mutilations - strange mutilations >alt.anomaly.ufos - aerial sightings, close encounters of 1st and 2nd kind Since this posting responses suggest that it would be less disruptive without much loss of meaning if we left alt.alien.meetings named alt.alien.visitors. There is merit to this suggestion and I am prepared to accept it. It also occurred to me that these third-level names are not exclusive, so that there should be a "misc" catchall for each. Thus, we would have alt.alien.coverups - official coverups, disinformation, harrassments alt.alien.visitors - close encounters of 3rd and 4th kinds, abductions alt.alien.misc - subjects not included in above alt.anomaly.circles - crop circles, unidentified ground markings alt.anomaly.mutilations - strange mutilations alt.anomaly.ufos - aerial sightings, close encounters of 1st and 2nd kind alt.anomaly.misc - subjects not included in above It was suggested that "paranormal" be used in place of "anomaly" in the above, but that group has become dominated by new-age types. If someone were of a mind to break out alt.paranormal, however, I would suggest alt.paranormal.esp - telepathy, clairvoyance, precognition, telekinesis alt.paranormal.dead - contact with the dead, ghosts, reincarnation alt.paranormal.creature - strange creatures, such as bigfoot, yeti alt.paranormal.missing - strange disappearances alt.paranormal.reveal - revealed wisdom, impending momentous events alt.paranormal.injury - strange injuries, such as spontaneous combustion alt.paranormal.misc - subjects not included in above --- jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net Jon Roland Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A, Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!usage!syacus!steven From: steven@syacus.acus.oz.au (Steven Malikoff) Subject: Re: NASA's Block of Ice! Message-ID: <1992Jul26.232501.29746@syacus.acus.oz.au> Organization: ACUS Australian Centre for Unisys Software, Sydney References: <1992Jul23.144101.29930@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1992 23:25:01 GMT Lines: 22 rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: : I also have a question for you folks DOWN UNDER.(That's AUSTRAILIA for : those of you who don't know where down under is.) I recall that about 3-4 : years ago that : an egg shaped craft buzzed a family in a car on some highway down there. As : I recall there was some material released by the craft & it was retrieved : by the occupants of the vehicle. The material was brought in for analysis & : that was the last I ever heard about it. I think a fishing boat offshore : also reported : seeing the craft about an hour later. There was quite a bit of news on the : incident back then, but as most news stories go , the press never really : follows up. If the "incident" you refer to was the ufo that buzzed a car driving across the Simpson desert (could have been the Nullarbor) then sorry, that turned out to be a hoax. I remember just after, an ad appeared in the paper for something or other (might have been car insurance?) featuring a ufo landing on a car, with the caption "This wouldn't have happened if you'd had ". Steve. steven@syacus.acus.oz.au Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!cs.mu.OZ.AU!munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU!curmi From: curmi@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Jamie Paul CURMI) Subject: Why not Australia? Message-ID: <9220916.15028@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> Summary: WHY not Australia? Keywords: australia, bases, ufos, kangaroos, greys, vegemite Sender: news@cs.mu.OZ.AU Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 06:25:07 GMT Lines: 12 Just a thought.... Perhaps that big rock in the centre aint really just a rock? \(^_^)/ Jamie -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jamie P. Curmi (curmi@cs.mu.oz.au, curmi@maths.mu.oz.au) Department of Computer Science, Department of Mathematics The University of Melbourne, Parkville, Victoria, Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ *** Mutate NOW - avoid the rush! *** Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!ParaNet(sm).Information.Service From: ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: STRONG WORD OF CAUTION! Message-ID: <139389.2A739F99@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 27 Jul 92 06:56:03 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Sender: usenet@cs.tcd.ie (NN required at ashe.cs.tcd.ie) Nntp-Posting-Host: unix1.tcd.ie Organization: Trinity College, Dublin Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 10:56:49 GMT Lines: 25 Here is a news article as reported in today's Irish Independant Newspaper, Monday, July 27th...... SPY PLANE SPARKS SCARE A MYSTERIOUS, fast moving shape in the sky has been scaring sheep in western Scotland and rattling windows in Los Angeles. There are reports of sudden "pulsating roars". That's all it said.... Are we to presume that these events have happened simultaneously??? Reporting just isn't what it used to be! ____________________________________________________________________ | Emma Williams | Dad, I guess you're wondering why | | ewillims@unix1.tcd.ie | I'm ringing you..--Calvin & Hobbes | | | (eller Steen og Stoffer :-> ) | |____________________________|_____________________________________| Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: REQUEST: Roswell information; and how to get more Message-ID: <1992Jul27.102245.19078@crc.ac.uk> Date: 27 Jul 92 10:22:45 GMT References: <20JUN199221455246@zeus.tamu.edu> <61899@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul17.173640.17428@crc.ac.uk> Sender: news@crc.ac.uk Reply-To: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK Lines: 40 Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium In article , ee3401cb@carina.unm.edu (Student Class Account) writes: > In article <1992Jul17.173640.17428@crc.ac.uk> sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) writes: > >To coincide with the MUFON Conference last weekend in Alberquerque > >Stanton Friedman and Don Berliner's new book "Crash at Corona" was > >released. This week Stan is doing a lecture tour around New Mexico. > > {stuff deleted} > >At the MUFON Press Conference at Alberquerque there was a heated > >exchange of views between Kevin Randle, representing a local Roswell > >paper (also author with Don Schmitt of Crash at Roswell) and Stan. > > Maybe this debate was over the second crash site or something? > > James If I remember correctly, it was along the lines that Kevin felt that Stan was on dangerous ground because he felt he (KR) had evidence which showed one of Stan's main witnesses to be a liar. From what Stan said in his lecture, he managed to sell all 100 copies of Crash at Corona he had at the MUFON conference. If you want to did into the Roswell case, as well as the books Roswell Incident, UFO Crash at Roswell and Crash at Corona, there is also a book produced by Center for UFO Studies which is a collection of papers by various authors concerning Roswell. There is also a video produced by the Fund for UFO Research (?Recollections of Roswell) Steve. -- (Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. Phone: +44 81 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.config:9030 alt.alien.visitors:7596 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!ibmpcug!mantis!mathew From: mathew Newsgroups: alt.config,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: RFD: Split, rename alt.alien.visitors Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 13:27:42 BST References: Distribution: world Organization: Mantis Consultants, Cambridge. UK. Lines: 41 jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) writes: > alt.strange.ufos - aerial sightings, close encounters of 1st and 2nd kind > alt.strange.aliens - close encounters of 3rd and 4th kinds, abductions > alt.strange.circles - crop circles, unidentified ground markings > alt.strange.mutilations - strange mutilations > alt.strange.coverups - official coverups, disinformation, harrassments > > All these work except the last. We could try "anomaly": > > alt.anomaly.ufos - aerial sightings, close encounters of 1st and 2nd kind > alt.anomaly.aliens - close encounters of 3rd and 4th kinds, abductions > alt.anomaly.circles - crop circles, unidentified ground markings > alt.anomaly.mutilations - strange mutilations > alt.anomaly.coverups - official coverups, disinformation, harrassments I suggest "forteana". alt.forteana.ufos alt.forteana.aliens alt.forteana.circles alt.forteana.mutilations alt.forteana.coverups And, of course, we could have an alt.forteana.misc for discussion of general Fortean events. The only problem I can see is that not everyone will have heard of or read The Fortean Times, so you'd get people asking what Forteana are and who Charles Fort was. Of course, this isn't a bad thing, as anyone interested in such topics damn well ought to have a subscription to the Fortean Times. mathew -- This disclaimer does not represent the views of Mantis Consultants Ltd Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10972 alt.alien.visitors:7597 sci.skeptic:27948 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <62886@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 09:01:33 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: Lines: 6 Dear Dan: I wish that I had you with me yesterday down in Souther Calif. on a 5 miles hike into some American Indian ancient country. That would have taken some of the starch out of your levies. We were in an area where people have sightings of what the indians call Thunderbird and what scientist call the pterodactyl. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!math.fu-berlin.de!hrz.tu-chemnitz.de!jahe From: jahe@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de (Jane Hennig) Subject: Ships to India or Pakistan Message-ID: Sender: bin@hrz.tu-chemnitz.de (Owner of all binaries) Organization: tu-chemnitz Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 15:55:16 GMT Lines: 11 Peter and Mario want to travel to India. Who knows from which European harbors are going ships to India or Pakistan? Please, when you can help me, write as soon as possible. Thank you!!! Fine, holidays for all nn-readers. :-) Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10973 alt.alien.visitors:7599 sci.skeptic:27949 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <62887@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 09:17:25 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: Lines: 9 Dear Warren, Grant, Ben and Bob: I once had the pleasure of reading some material called The Sabors Portions from the Sananda Sanat Kamara Association. It was great material but it did repeat itself a lot and had a lot of mistakes in it. A young man came along and took the time to read and correct the mistakes so that everybody could understand it. A master came along and read the information after it was corrected and said, "The information goes out the way it was before". John Winston. Xref: news.uiowa.edu sci.skeptic:27950 alt.alien.visitors:7600 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from an interested p Message-ID: <62888@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 09:28:21 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul22.210032.18308@pony.Ingres.COM> <1992Jul25.193400.14718@rosevax.rosemount.com> Lines: 6 Dear Grant: I will have to admit that a good deal of what the pulp magazines contain is just something to sell papers but sometime they contain pearls of wisdom that do come through. I believe that very little can be learned by looking at the headlines of the tabloids as one goes through the checkout line. John Winston. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: What the hell is a ley line?? Message-ID: <62890@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 09:40:48 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul18.090727.28652@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> <62393@cup.portal.com> <62659@cup.portal.com> Lines: 5 Dear Everybody: I just got back from my trip into the 30,000 year old city in Southern Calif. I enjoyed myself and truely it can be said about the city, Truely The Half Has Not Been Told. John Winston. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Men In Black (mib) Message-ID: <62891@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 09:52:03 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <139288.2A6C8CC9@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <1992Jul22.183227.6227@mprgate.mpr.ca> <1992Jul26.151223.19673@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Lines: 9 Dear Fredrich: This weekend I was in Southern Calif. on a 5 mile hike into some American Indian country and a person by the name of Robert Stanley told me that he once was taken on a ride aboard a Earth built flying disk craft. The craft was piloted by an American person. Robert and the pilot were picked up by a craft that was a remotely controlled craft. When they got into the craft the American took control of the ship and they went over and observed the Persian Gulf War that was at that time going on. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!mips!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Subject: John_-_Winston Poll Message-ID: <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> Keywords: Get a clue numb----. Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:10:26 GMT Lines: 32 Hello any & everybody, Mabye John will get the MESSAGE this way?!?! All those in favor of dear old John_-_Winston sending e-mail instead of posting his responses to the world at large , please post a RE: to this message to let the post happy bandwidth burner know we are all growing weary of his blatent disregard for information dissemination in an organized & efficient manner.The next step of course would be to contact the NETWORK POLICE to give him a keyboard enema. The choices are: yes [X] John,please refrain from posting what should be email responses to this newsgroup. no [ ] John, continue with your irratating ways. We love to read all of your responses to questions & flames that we have never seen. the old moronic no opinion [ ] What a stupid idea in the first place,who cares about someone with no opinion. Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$  Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Men In Black Message-ID: <62892@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 10:07:33 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <139331.2A707317@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Lines: 11 Dear Mike: Please let me put my two cents worth in here. In my humble opinion I think that John Keel has put out a lot of very good information but now that he is writing for Fate magazine it appears that his attitude towards some subjects seem to be one of disbelief in quite a few different subjects. It appears that sometimes a person will back off a litte just to stay alive. Obtaining information about people who have knowledge of MIBs is sort of like interviewing a person who has been attempted to be eaten by a white shark. Their are not very many people who have lived to talk about it. If you have the experience you are convienced not to talk about it. If you do continue to talk about it you wake up dead. John Winston. Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Boy or Girl (was Re: e: Ley Lines) Message-ID: <62894@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 10:41:04 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: Lines: 11 Dear Andy: How are you today, I forgot to ask? Please forgive me but hello Andy is a saying I use to greet any and everone. How are you I forgot to ask is a joke amoung my friends. You asked about the Mysterious Rock Walls. They have been invertigated by many groups. Some people think they are only 220 years old but my friends think they are 22,000 years old and that information comes from psychics mostly. They appear to be is some cases to be only about 4 feet tall and about 1 and one half feet wide. They will run for hundreds of yards and even have two walls running along parallel to one another. There is a group investigating them in Fremont Caif. that one of the members of the group was a medical doctor whoes last name is Fisher.----John Winston.------ Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10974 alt.alien.visitors:7606 sci.skeptic:27955 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!yale.edu!think.com!news.bbn.com!ingria From: ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Date: 27 Jul 1992 17:42:22 GMT Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <62886@cup.portal.com> Reply-To: ingria@BBN.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com In-reply-to: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com's message of 27 Jul 92 16:01:33 GMT In article <62886@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: Dear Dan: I wish that I had you with me yesterday down in Souther Calif. on a 5 miles hike into some American Indian ancient country. That would have taken some of the starch out of your levies. We were in an area where people have sightings of what the indians call Thunderbird and what scientist call the pterodactyl. You realize, of course, that partaking of what winos call Thunderbird can produce visions of what scientists call the pterodactyl. -30- Bob Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Boy or Girl (was Re: e: Ley Lines) Message-ID: <62898@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 10:48:03 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: Lines: 8 ---There is a lady who has done a lot of investigating on the Mysterious Rock Walls and she has a newsletter about them and other energy points. You might write her if you like. Louise Lacey P.O. Box 489 Berkeley, Calif. 94701 This weekend I was near Malibu, Caliif. in the ruins of a 30,000 year old city and it had wall just about like the walls up here in the San Francisco Bay Area. The city was called Mu. John Winston. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Kill file Message-ID: <62899@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 10:54:14 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul25.184044.1606@mach4.wlu.ca> Lines: 4 Dear Kevin: I believe that if you use the commands subscribe and unsubscribe it will give you what you want. John Winston. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Is Bigfoot a Visitor? Message-ID: <62900@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 11:04:35 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul23.134824.3067@desire.wright.edu> <1992Jul23.233900.28968@odin.corp.sgi.com> Lines: 4 Dear Rod: I enjoyed your account of Bigfoot. It sounds like most of the information that has come my way about him or her. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: zeta reticuli Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 17:39:47 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> <7697@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> Lines: 59 In article <7697@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes: >In article <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes: >>To heck with how the Pleiadians ships work or how fast they go. HOW DID >>THEY EVOLVE SO DARN FAST? The Pleiades are bright young stars still >>within their nebular cocoon. They are along the order of millions of >>years old. It took life on Earth more than 4 billion years to evolve >>to the point where it could walk upright, talk, and dream silly dreams. >>Are the Pleidians child prodigies? Btw the first prokaryotes didn't >>evolve here until a billion years or so after the formation of Earth. >>Thomas Freebairn > >I think the New Age Crystalbabble party line is that the >Pleiadians were seeded by an elder race; they did not originally >evolve in what is now their home system. As for the Pleiades, >how far away are they? You would want to add their distance to >their apparent age (as viewed from Earth) to get the actual age, >right? > >Also, if evolution is driven in part by genetic mutation caused >by stellar radiation, can we expect it to "happen faster" in >binary or trinary star systems? > >Have I convinced everyone that a liberal arts education >is truly worthless? :-) No, you ask some good questions. I don't remember how far the pleiades are from us, but they are within our galaxy, so they are a few thousand light years away at most, an insignificant time period. They are also _VERY_ young, the reflection nebulae that surraounds them is left over from their formation. Any planets that have formed are at best barren and atmosphere-less, or at wordt still molten. The estimates of the age are in the million of years, orders of magnitude younger than the earth was when single celled life appeared here. Evolution hasn't come in to play yet so the radiation from being in orbit around multiple O or B type star system isn't a factor. (O and B type starts are the hottest type stars, which many of the memebers of the Pleiades cluster are.) >-- >DISCLAIMER: | Bob Mitchell >"Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | mitch@ea.ucla.edu >"Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified] >"Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy | 1987 VT700c Ithlial My opinions, mine, mine, mine! I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go, "What, was THAT?!" Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Erich Von Daniken Message-ID: Date: 27 Jul 92 18:14:15 GMT References: <1992Jul23.091433.14378@newshub.sdsu.edu> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 33 Hi, melissa@voyager4.sdsu.edu (Melissa ) I was just wondering if anyone out there took seriously the theories and claims of famed author and traveler Erich Von Daniken. .... you may want to look for Clifford Wilson's books "Crash go the Chariots" and "The Chariots still Crash", for further information on EVD's evidence for his thesis. The sum of the matter is that EVD's supporting "evidence" is not what he says it is. Here's the publication information from the Rutgers library catalog: AUTHOR Wilson, Clifford A TITLE Crash go the chariots / Clifford Wilson. EDITION Rev. and enl. PUBLISHER San Diego, Calif. : Master Books, 1976. AUTHOR Wilson, Clifford A. TITLE The chariots still crash / Clifford Wilson. PUBLISHER New York : New American Library, [1976] c1975. .... Read those for a another viewpoint on things. I always had problems with some of EVD's evidence; saying that the Pyramids were unbuildable without help ignores the amazing engineering genius that humans (even ancient humans) posses. Its an interesting thesis, of course, but in my opinion EVD's evidence should not be taken at face value. (Don't forget the "Gold of the Gods" fiasco.) Charles Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!sunova!andorra!kevin From: kevin@andorra.Berkeley.EDU (Kevin Nelson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: John_Winston-Complete incineration Message-ID: <1992Jul27.184726.20422@sunova.ssc.gov> Date: 27 Jul 92 18:47:26 GMT Sender: usenet@sunova.ssc.gov (News Admin) Reply-To: kevin@andorra.Berkeley.EDU (Kevin Nelson) Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory Lines: 23 Nntp-Posting-Host: andorra.ssc.gov >From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com >who have knowledge of MIBs is sort of like interviewing a person >who has been attempted to be eaten by a white shark. Their are not >very many people who have lived to talk about it. If you have the >experience you are convienced not to talk about it. If you do continue >to talk about it you wake up dead. John Winston. Hey John, just how does one "wake up dead".... Was your brain abducted sometime back? Maybe someone, something will trip while treading upon the surface of Uranus and look down and say "look doesn't that appear to be a brain or what used to be one!!" Look if you keep posting this ridiculous garbage you're just going to have to endure the heat..... May the toast be with you John...... Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!sunova!andorra!kevin From: kevin@andorra.Berkeley.EDU (Kevin Nelson) Subject: John_Winston-Complete incineration Message-ID: <1992Jul27.185232.20658@sunova.ssc.gov> Sender: usenet@sunova.ssc.gov (News Admin) Nntp-Posting-Host: andorra.ssc.gov Reply-To: kevin@andorra.Berkeley.EDU (Kevin Nelson) Organization: Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 18:52:32 GMT Lines: 25 >From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com >who have knowledge of MIBs is sort of like interviewing a person >who has been attempted to be eaten by a white shark. Their are not >very many people who have lived to talk about it. If you have the >experience you are convienced not to talk about it. If you do continue >to talk about it you wake up dead. John Winston. Hey John, just how does one "wake up dead".... Was your brain abducted sometime back? Maybe someone, something will trip while treading upon the surface of Uranus and look down and say "look doesn't that appear to be a brain or what used to be one!!" Look if you keep posting this ridiculous garbage you're just going to have to endure the heat..... May the toast be with you John...... Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!news.ans.net!nynexst.com!mirage!pjc From: pjc@mirage.nynexst.com (Peter Colonel) Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll : yes [X] Message-ID: <1992Jul27.185943.9866@nynexst.com> Keywords: Get a clue numb----. Sender: news@nynexst.com (For News purposes) Reply-To: pjc@mirage.nynexst.com (Peter Colonel) Organization: Nynex Science & Technology References: <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 18:59:43 GMT Lines: 7 [X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X] [X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X] [X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X] [X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X] [X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X] 'nuf said ??? Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!agate!usenet From: william@moica.berkeley.edu (William E. Grosso) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll : yes [X] Date: 27 Jul 1992 19:54:03 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 20 Message-ID: <151k8rINNmr6@agate.berkeley.edu> References: <1992Jul27.185943.9866@nynexst.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: moica.berkeley.edu In article <1992Jul27.185943.9866@nynexst.com> pjc@mirage.nynexst.com (Peter Colonel) writes: > [X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X] > [X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X] > [X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X] > [X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X] > [X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X][X] > > 'nuf said ??? No. Not enough said. you negelected to mention which box you were x'ing. All we know is that you have a very strongly held opinion. Personally, I hope you're x'ing the apathetic box (for esthetic reasons). Bill Grosso Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!mips!sdd.hp.com!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!bronze!indyvax.iupui.edu!harvey From: harvey@indyvax.iupui.edu Subject: Re: zeta reticuli Message-ID: <1992Jul27.150451.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Lines: 62 Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: indyvax.iupui.edu Organization: Indiana University References: <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> <7697@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> <1992Jul25.004507.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Date: 27 Jul 92 15:04:51 -0500 In article <1992Jul25.004507.1@indyvax.iupui.edu>, tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes: > In article <7697@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>, mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes: >> In article <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes: >>>To heck with how the Pleiadians ships work or how fast they go. HOW DID >>>THEY EVOLVE SO DARN FAST? The Pleiades are bright young stars still >>>within their nebular cocoon. They are along the order of millions of >>>years old. It took life on Earth more than 4 billion years to evolve >>>to the point where it could walk upright, talk, and dream silly dreams. >>>Are the Pleidians child prodigies? Btw the first prokaryotes didn't >>>evolve here until a billion years or so after the formation of Earth. >>>Thomas Freebairn >> >> I think the New Age Crystalbabble party line is that the >> Pleiadians were seeded by an elder race; they did not originally >> evolve in what is now their home system. > > Yes? It's still a pretty weak explanation. Oxygen-breathing animals would have a difficult time surviving on an earth-like planet before the evolution of _plants_, let alone prokaryotes. In fact, before the evolution of plants, the earth wasn't really very `earth-like' at all, if by that term you mean like it is now... Ask yourself: Why is earth's atmosphere 21% oxygen? How long did it take to get this way (it wasn't always, you know). How does soil cover over bedrock form? How could these `seeded' Pleiadians have survived before there was any bacterial slime to be licked off of rocks, let alone oxygen to breath? > >>As for the Pleiades, >> how far away are they? You would want to add their distance to >> their apparent age (as viewed from Earth) to get the actual age, >> right? > > No. Yes. But if the distance in light years is very small compared to their age, this correction will be negligable. >> Also, if evolution is driven in part by genetic mutation caused >> by stellar radiation, can we expect it to "happen faster" in >> binary or trinary star systems? > > Yes and no. But you're talking orders of magnitude faster. And even if mutations happen faster, if there is no selection pressure, how is this going to speed up evolution? What about selection pressures that are going to take on the order of a billion years or so to develop regardless of the mutation rate, like anaerobic bacteria producing enough O2 to make a big enough niche for aerobic bacteria to florish? >> Have I convinced everyone that a liberal arts education >> is truly worthless? :-)> > > Maybe. > > Thomas Freebairn -- James Harvey harvey@iupui.edu uucp: iugate!harvey bitnet: harvey@indyvax Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: John_Winston-Complete incineration Message-ID: <62904@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 13:13:24 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul27.184726.20422@sunova.ssc.gov> Lines: 3 Dear Kevin: Please don't get excited. John Winsnton. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll Message-ID: <62905@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 13:16:14 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> Lines: 2 Dear Rod: I read your suggestion. John Winston. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Kill file Message-ID: <62907@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 13:21:10 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul25.184044.1606@mach4.wlu.ca> <62899@cup.portal.com> Lines: 4 Dear Kevin: After thinking about my last advice to you I take it all back it won't work. John Winston. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ships to India or Pakistan Message-ID: <62908@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 13:24:35 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: Lines: 23 In article jahe@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de (Jane Hennig) writes: | Peter and Mario want to travel to India. | | Who knows from which European harbors are going ships | to India or Pakistan? | | Please, when you can help me, write as soon as possible. | | Thank you!!! | | | Fine, holidays for all nn-readers. :-) Do "Grays" carry green cards? Have visas? :-) Anyone still believe "alt.alien.visitors" shouldn't be renamed, please raise your hand. "alt.ufos.*" would reduce some of the non-pertinent traffic that appears in this newsgroup, but I'm not saying that's the best choice for a new name. Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10976 alt.alien.visitors:7621 sci.skeptic:27964 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!arsmith From: arsmith@nyx.cs.du.edu (Alan Smith) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Jul27.201545.18316@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. References: <62886@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 20:15:45 GMT Lines: 15 In article <62886@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Dan: I wish that I had you with me yesterday down in Souther Calif. >on a 5 miles hike into some American Indian ancient country. That would >have taken some of the starch out of your levies. We were in an area >where people have sightings of what the indians call Thunderbird and >what scientist call the pterodactyl. >John Winston. You're thinking of Condors, big vulturelike birds. Pteradactyls were more like flying squirrels than birds, although I suppose they could make use of thermals to gain altitude. Big Al. Hey, what did Pteradactyls eat, anyway? Any kind-hearted palentologists out there? Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll Message-ID: <62909@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 13:34:53 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> Lines: 29 In article <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: | Mabye John will get the MESSAGE this way?!?! All those in favor of dear old | John_-_Winston sending e-mail instead of posting his responses to the world | at large , please post a RE: to this message to let the post happy | [...] While I agree there's far too much "personal banter" occuring, give the guy a break. The Portal interface is NOT like anything you may have seen before; it's sort of a cross between "Notes" (as on HP-UX systems) and a DOS-type BBS. Believe me, it's all too easy to accidentally send an empty article or not understand how to move to the next screen. And the email interface appears identical to the Usenet, Clarinet, Internet interfaces and it's very easy to become confused even for those who ARE "computer-literate." I've sent email to John and to "cs@cup.portal.com" (Customer Services) asking to get John setup with a "Portal Partner" or "Portal Pals" (whatever they call it) to help him acclimate to the system. I've used Portal for over 5 years (since it was a local call, and The WELL (used to) charge by the minute) because it was a flat-rate service, but even I occasionally get "caught" in the interface (even though I've put most of Portal's commands on function keys with my terminal emulator). Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7623 sci.skeptic:27965 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: astral travel Message-ID: <62912@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 13:43:18 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul22.193835.3751@acd4.acd.com> <62637@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul24.040144.20572@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> <62711@cup.portal.com> Lines: 4 Dear Press: You made the statement, John you would be God. This statement that you made in jest is actually the ultimate goal of enlightment and that is to be at one with God. Then you would know everything. John Winston. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7624 sci.skeptic:27969 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: astral travel Message-ID: <62915@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 14:05:07 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul22.193835.3751@acd4.acd.com> <62637@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul24.040144.20572@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> <62711@cup.portal.com> Lines: 11 Hi there BSKAGL: I just got back from the ruins of the 30,000 year old city in Southern Calif. Now back to the discussion of Astral Projection. The person called T. Lobsang Rampa (the T. stands for tuesday because they always put down the day a person is born on to identify them astrologically so they can know more about a person, and I find that extremely funny) did talk in his book The Rampa Story starting on page 22 about astral projection and I will now paraphrase some of that information.---His quide taught astral travel so well that he could do it better than walking. Almost anyone of the religions of the world believes in the soul or "other body". Actually there are several bodies or sheaths but the exact number does not concern us here. We know that it is possible-----John Winston.-- Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: astral travel Message-ID: <62916@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 14:17:17 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul22.193835.3751@acd4.acd.com> Lines: 9 --lay aside the ordinary physical body (the one that supports the clothes) and travel anywhere, even beyond the Earth, in the astral form. Everyone does astral travelling, even the ones who think it is "all nonsense"! It is as natural as breathing. Most people do it when they are asleep and so, unless they are trained, they know nothing about it. Many times dieing people visit alive people by astral travel to tell them they have past over and to let their friend know that they now are OK on the other side. That's all for now. John Winston. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A question for John_-_Winston Message-ID: <62918@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 14:26:17 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul16.152737.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Lines: 7 Dear tffreeb: Well someone finally took pity on little ole me and told me who Hassan B. Multu is and he turns out to be a person who does a lot of posting in Europe. He talks a lot about the Armeanian killing a bunch of Turks not too many years ago. I can say without a hesitation that I'm not him. John Winston. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: alt.alien.visitors crossposts Message-ID: <62920@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 14:36:21 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul26.165855.5157@mach4.wlu.ca> Lines: 5 Dear Kevin: I have a question. When are you going to run out of questions. The teachings of the people of the East are not foolishness to some people. I believe they have a lot to teach us if we will but listen. John Winston. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Artsy MIBs and Alien MIBs Message-ID: <62921@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 14:40:45 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <62546@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul22.125200.20671@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Lines: 3 Dear Steve: I believe that anything is possible. John Winston. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO books Message-ID: <62922@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 15:06:30 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul23.193217.510@news.Hawaii.Edu> Lines: 10 Dear Elaine: You ask about UFO book so here I go. I'll try to give you my opinion on the subject. The first book is Stranger At The Pentagon by Frank Stranges. Fate Magazine just got through writing an article tearing this book apart. I figure if Fate has that much to say about it then it's got to be good. I read it many years ago and it talks about a person from Venus called Valient Thor who contacted Ike I. (our president) and tried to give us some help. We didn't take his help but he did give us 2 or more UFOs to show good faith. You can get the book at Inner Light Publications, P.O. Box 753, New Prunswick, NJ 08903 USA. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!lynx!lacerta.unm.edu!cary From: cary@lacerta.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 22:47:41 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> Keywords: Get a clue numb----. Lines: 30 In article <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: > >The choices are: yes [X] John,please refrain from posting what should be email responses to this newsgroup. >no [ ] John, continue with your irratating ways. We love to read all of >your responses to questions & flames that we have never seen. > >the old moronic no opinion [ ] What a stupid idea in the first place,who >cares about someone with no opinion. > Ithlial JOHN! USE YOUR GODDAM EEEEEEEE M M A IIIIIII L ! E MM MM A A I L ! E M M M M A A I L ! EEEE ======= M M M M A A I L ! E M M M AAAAAAAAA I L ! E M M A A I L ! EEEEEEEE M M A A IIIIIII LLLLLLL o Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!rd1s+ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:47:04 -0400 From: "Robert H. P. Dunn" Subject: aliens from sigkids@siggraph.org Lines: 29 From sigkids Mon Jul 27 15:38:19 1992 Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 15:38:19 -0500 From: Siggraph'92 SIGKids To: netnews.alt.alien.visitors Subject: their supiriority over us Cc: sigkids@siggraph.org We definately know that aliens are definately superior compared to us, because they haven't contacted us yet. This is known because I was an alien in a past life. My story starts several years ago... Me and Zargot were taking an evening stroll when when an earthling satelite crushed him (sort of like the wiked witch of the West or east or whatever which one it was. you probably know) Anyway... I was covered in alien blood(which is made of a very high corrosive) which severely damaged me. Also it took our homes amay (by the way we were exactly 20000 times smaller than those demented earthlings, so to them our homes looked like grains of dust. So us Zarlgonians refer to you extremely massive and inferior earthlings the "Ones who crushed our homes and smashed our peoples into micro- scopic bits of dying organic matter, so we tend to stay away from them. Another reason we are superior is that we control ourselve from eating toxic waste such as... twinkies, ding dongs, choco bliss, pepsi, and pizza, raw sea animals with no natural external coverings (shells, etc...) Also you destroy new life forms and old ones especially your enviroment. I could go on for many pages, but I am being called by my leader...not this is "the one who experienced gory things and who had to suffer because he turned into something terrible after his battery ran out... ......an earthling!!!" Ari @ sigkids Chicago Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10981 alt.alien.visitors:7632 sci.skeptic:27972 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!hoptoad!amdcad!sono!lawson From: lawson@acuson.com (Drew Lawson) Subject: Re: The Prime Directive Message-ID: <1992Jul27.204837.20643@acuson.com> Reply-To: lawson@acuson.com (Drew Lawson) Organization: ACUSON, Mountain View, CA References: <62554@cup.portal.com> <62609@cup.portal.com> <62695@cup.portal.com> <62709@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 20:48:37 GMT Lines: 11 In article <62709@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Fellow Earthlings: Here it is Friday morning 0607 and things look >pretty good. If it's God's will and if the creek doesn't rise >I hope to go down to Southern Calif. and go on a tour of the ruins >of a 30,000 year old city. No, John. Los Angeles only _seems_ 30,000 years old. -- Drew Lawson If you're not part of the solution, lawson@acuson.com you're part of the precipitate Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10982 alt.alien.visitors:7633 sci.skeptic:27973 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Message-ID: <62928@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 16:49:59 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun14.192328.11396@cco.caltech.edu> <1992Jun15.000927.14468@uwm.edu> <1992Jun15.143917.16445@rhrk.uni-kl.de> <1992Jun16.014515.24059@uwm.edu> Lines: 11 Dear Future Astral Astronauts: In my last report of the Astral Convoy I made a few slight mistakes. The person called K. should have been J. J. lived in Penn. USA rather than Hawaii. E. forgot to go on the journey but his higher self took off on time and did make contact with J. I don't know what J. looks like but I think I got a picture in my mind of E. Shannon passed out according to the information I got from E. and wasn't aware of anything. We don't know whether Shannon is a girl or boy but we don't want to ask because Shannon will think we're trying to cheat. Kumar turned out to be in the USA rather than Germany but he never could get his mind altogether. So we have a little room for improvement. We have a person from England named Linda that wants in on some of this action. JW Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10983 alt.alien.visitors:7634 sci.skeptic:27974 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Message-ID: <62931@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 16:59:04 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun14.192328.11396@cco.caltech.edu> <1992Jun15.000927.14468@uwm.edu> <1992Jun15.143917.16445@rhrk.uni-kl.de> <1992Jun16.014515.24059@uwm.edu> Lines: 6 Part 2. J. has two friends that want to get in on this. Their names are Allen and Bill. Some people may wonder how I'm going to get from one place to another so fast. This Astral Convoy will be traveling at the speed of thought. I'll need 8 seconds or less for each person visited. That's all for now. John Winston. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <62932@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 17:15:23 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61258@cup.portal.com> <62793@cup.portal.com> Lines: 11 This is the start of Part 3 of the information from Shaari about ley lines. ----The research by the Star Command is two fold, the first is {they are} checking to see how the Earth's surface, how the surfacre is being affected by the deterioration of the ozone, how much reaiaation is in there, how much negative vibratory frequencies are in there, how many negative thought forms are around in there. {This is} very much an assessment and analyses of how the Earth's surface is beisng impacted by her {exterior} enviorment. Pollution, what's happening is that it {comes} from the negativity and sometimes the {adverse} thought forms that are laying close to the ground. The radiation and pollution are all being monitored and checked. At the same time while they are checking that, they---JW Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Linesj Message-ID: <62935@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 17:28:49 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <62440@cup.portal.com> <62518@cup.portal.com> <62582@cup.portal.com> <+6fmdv@lynx.unm.edu> <62611@cup.portal.com> Lines: 11 ---are infusing the qualities of color, light, {time} and frequency into those connection points of the ley lines {crossover, See,} That's why some of the circular configurations {will just} be a circle, others will {seem} more elaborate, like two barbells and two parallel lines, you know that they look like two {little} lines that are, the purpose of which even goes further {that}, each one of these are access points for the earth's conciousness to also exchange with her {conciousness} and her higher {range}. This is what your have, high conciousness. This is what you have {conciousness} with God, but guess what, the earth does too, and it's not the Star Command. The Star Command is just assisting, a service department, but she also has the conciousness of God and --- Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Linesj Message-ID: <62936@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 92 17:35:56 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <62440@cup.portal.com> <62518@cup.portal.com> <62582@cup.portal.com> <+6fmdv@lynx.unm.edu> <62611@cup.portal.com> Lines: 7 --the Goddess and other planets and other constellations that she speaks to, so when you are looking at these two barbells which are symbolical of these particular configurations and you have two parallel lines that are very close together and usually on either side of these circles, these little parallel lines indicate the {specific} transformation doorways for the earth and her conciousness. End of Part 3. John Winston. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!yale.edu!yale!gumby!destroyer!caen!umeecs!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ships to India or Pakistan Message-ID: Date: 27 Jul 92 23:50:32 GMT References: <62908@cup.portal.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 34 In article <62908@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >In article >jahe@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de (Jane Hennig) writes: > >| Peter and Mario want to travel to India. >| >| Who knows from which European harbors are going ships >| to India or Pakistan? >| >| Please, when you can help me, write as soon as possible. >| >| Thank you!!! >| >| >| Fine, holidays for all nn-readers. :-) > >Do "Grays" carry green cards? Have visas? :-) > >Anyone still believe "alt.alien.visitors" shouldn't be renamed, please raise >your hand. "alt.ufos.*" would reduce some of the non-pertinent traffic that >appears in this newsgroup, but I'm not saying that's the best choice for a >new name. Sorry Thad, it had been demonstrated many times right here that when many say UFO, they mean alien spaceship. Unless the new groups generated more traffic (which is possible), it would diffuse it out a bit. Poor John is having trouble keeping up now. >Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Rich payner@netcom.com Xref: news.uiowa.edu sci.skeptic:27978 alt.alien.visitors:7639 Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!rosevax!aquarius!grante From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) Subject: Re: Human Parthenogenesis? (Was: Questions from an interested p Message-ID: <1992Jul27.235723.6662@rosevax.rosemount.com> Sender: news@rosevax.rosemount.com (USENET News administrator) Nntp-Posting-Host: aquarius Reply-To: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) Organization: Rosemount, Inc. References: <62888@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 23:57:23 GMT Lines: 18 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: : Dear Grant: I will have to admit that a good deal of what the pulp : magazines contain is just something to sell papers but sometime they contain : pearls of wisdom that do come through. I believe that very little can : be learned by looking at the headlines of the tabloids as one goes : through the checkout line. : John Winston. I don't just read the headlines in the WWN. We have a subscription at work (paid for with personal money). The fun part is trying to pick out the articles that are true (albeit slightly sensationalized) vs the ones that are complete fabrications. -- Grant Edwards |Yow! I'm a GENIUS! I want Rosemount Inc. |to dispute sentence structure |with SUSAN SONTAG!! grante@aquarius.rosemount.com | Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10984 alt.alien.visitors:7640 sci.skeptic:27982 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!uwm.edu!news.bbn.com!ingria From: ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Date: 28 Jul 1992 02:27:05 GMT Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <1992Jun14.192328.11396@cco.caltech.edu> <1992Jun15.000927.14468@uwm.edu> <1992Jun15.143917.16445@rhrk.uni-kl.de> <1992Jun16.014515.24059@uwm.edu> <62931@cup.portal.com> Reply-To: ingria@BBN.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com In-reply-to: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com's message of 27 Jul 92 23:59:04 GMT In article <62931@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: Part 2. J. has two friends that want to get in on this. Their names are Allen and Bill. Some people may wonder how I'm going to get from one place to another so fast. This Astral Convoy will be traveling at the speed of thought. Using what stimulants or depressants? -30- Bob ``Oh, we've got a great big convoy...'' Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!bronze!indyvax.iupui.edu!tffreeba From: tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu Subject: Re: zeta reticuli Message-ID: <1992Jul27.215024.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Lines: 56 Sender: news@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: indyvax.iupui.edu Organization: Indiana University References: <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> <7697@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> <1992Jul25.004507.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Date: 27 Jul 92 21:50:24 -0500 In article <1992Jul25.004507.1@indyvax.iupui.edu>, tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes: > In article <7697@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>, mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes: >> In article <1992Jul22.213112.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu writes: >>>To heck with how the Pleiadians ships work or how fast they go. HOW DID >>>THEY EVOLVE SO DARN FAST? The Pleiades are bright young stars still >>>within their nebular cocoon. They are along the order of millions of >>>years old. It took life on Earth more than 4 billion years to evolve >>>to the point where it could walk upright, talk, and dream silly dreams. >>>Are the Pleidians child prodigies? Btw the first prokaryotes didn't >>>evolve here until a billion years or so after the formation of Earth. >>>Thomas Freebairn >> >> I think the New Age Crystalbabble party line is that the >> Pleiadians were seeded by an elder race; they did not originally >> evolve in what is now their home system. > > Yes? Okay, okay. I was sleepy and being a smartass when I wrote this. The "yes" was because it seemed so natural that the true believers would come up with such an answer. It smacks of scientific creationism. > >>As for the Pleiades, >> how far away are they? You would want to add their distance to >> their apparent age (as viewed from Earth) to get the actual age, >> right? > > No. "No" because, as others have pointed out, the Pleiades are close enough that adding light travel time would be negligable in an evolutionary context. > >> Also, if evolution is driven in part by genetic mutation caused >> by stellar radiation, can we expect it to "happen faster" in >> binary or trinary star systems? > > Yes and no. "Yes and no" because while evolution may be somewhat accellerated in such circumstances there are also problems with getting life started at all in multiple systems. There was a good article in Astronomy magazine sometime in the last year on this subject. It had to do with the likelyhood of life in the alpha centauri system. If anybody is too lazy to look it up themselves, e-mail me and I will slog through my old issues and find out which one it is in. (See other INDYVAX posting on zeta reticuli for other good reasons no.) > >> Have I convinced everyone that a liberal arts education >> is truly worthless? :-)> > > Maybe. Total smartass stuff here. I can't talk, I have the same sort of education (but then again, I _am_ pretty sure mine is worthless.) Sorry for not being more forthcoming. No dog intended. > > Thomas Freebairn Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!vancleef From: vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A question for John_-_Winston Message-ID: <13130.2a747894@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Date: 27 Jul 92 22:28:36 EDT References: <1992Jul16.152737.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> <62918@cup.portal.com> Lines: 17 In article <62918@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear tffreeb: > Well someone finally took pity on little ole me and told me who Hassan > B. Multu is and he turns out to be a person who does a lot of posting > in Europe. He talks a lot about the Armeanian killing a bunch of Turks > not too many years ago. I can say without a hesitation that I'm not > him. > John Winston. What the hell does this have to do with "alt.alien.visitors"??? Please don't use net.news for personal messages. It's obnoxious and a waste of bandwidth. -Garrett Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!bu.edu!dartvax!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!umasp From: UMASP@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Is Bigfoot a Visitor? Message-ID: <92209.213800UMASP@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> Date: 28 Jul 92 01:38:00 GMT References: <1992Jul23.134824.3067@desire.wright.edu> Organization: University of Maine System Lines: 4 The idea was bounced around once in an episode of 'The Six Million Dollar Man'. Bigfoot ended up being a nice guy, and even made a second appearance on a later episode. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!monu6!vx24.cc.monash.edu.au!edc432ysys From: edc432ysys@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au Subject: ALIEN GREETZ Message-ID: <1992Jul28.124019.1@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au> Lines: 6 Sender: news@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (Usenet system) Organization: Computer Centre, Monash University, Australia Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 02:40:19 GMT Saalome gam naan ben uurda gan neeber asaal hesporoona HI ya! If you know what this means please contact me ! Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!seagoon.newcastle.edu.au!cc.newcastle.edu.au!c9109149 From: c9109149@cc.newcastle.edu.au Subject: Re: zeta reticuli Message-ID: <1992Jul28.112439.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> Lines: 15 Sender: news@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 01:24:39 GMT Here's a way that zeta reticuli system was seeded by aliens. First they had to make the planet survivable for the bipedal humanoid zete boys. To do this they 'terraformed' the planet step by step. First they formed basic stuff like water then dropped in some algae tablets and pretty soon the waters teemed with oxygen creating lifeforms. A few gene manipuluations later and a basic ecosystem developed. Then it was time to build up to the soil and mass carboniferous stuff that would support the zetis. For this, large (huge) amounts of carbon based organic material had to be shifted, complex vitamins and organic molecular shapes had to be mass produced so they sent in the DINOSAURS, those massive organic machines. In no time at all, wham! Time for more useful , sentient, emotional life to be sent in to play and so the zeti fellows grabbed a few thousand years to get to grips with life as they new it, made contact and now they are spying on us. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2 From: press2@cbnewsd.cb.att.com (barry.o.olson) Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll Organization: AT&T Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 04:40:50 GMT Message-ID: <1992Jul28.044050.4582@cbnewsd.cb.att.com> References: <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> Keywords: Get a clue numb----. Lines: 16 In article <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com>, rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: > Hello any & everybody, > > no [ ] John, continue with your irratating ways. We love to read all of > your responses to questions & flames that we have never seen. i'll take this one, and hmmm > > the old moronic no opinion [ ] What a stupid idea in the first place,who > cares about someone with no opinion. > What the hell, this one two. As a small potatwos poster to this star group, i find him quite knowledgable in the art of spirit world news with venus people and other odd groups. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!udel!sbcs.sunysb.edu!csws17.ic.sunysb.edu!dtiberio From: dtiberio@csws17.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll Message-ID: <1992Jul28.051512.28078@sbcs.sunysb.edu> Keywords: Get a clue numb----. Sender: usenet@sbcs.sunysb.edu (Usenet poster) Nntp-Posting-Host: csws17.ic.sunysb.edu Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook References: <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 05:15:12 GMT Lines: 29 In article <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: >Hello any & everybody, > >Mabye John will get the MESSAGE this way?!?! All those in favor of dear old >John_-_Winston sending e-mail instead of posting his responses to the world >at large , please post a RE: to this message to let the post happy >bandwidth burner >know we are all growing weary of his blatent disregard for information >dissemination in an organized & efficient manner.The next step of course >would be to contact the NETWORK POLICE to give him a keyboard enema. > >Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ I suggest he resort to esp-mail to save on bandwidth. By the way, how do you put a person in a KILL file? I was able to kill subjects in my kill file, but a certain person's posts keep appearing. Thanks a meg. -- // David Tiberio SUNY Stony Brook 516-473-5156 AMIGA DDD-MEN // bounce-resistant: dtiberio%libserv1.ic.sunysb.edu@sunysb.edu \X/ Perot for President 1-516-399-2259 Long Island, New York PPPP EEEEE RRRR OOO TTTTT IIIII N N 999 6666 P P E R R O O T I NN N 9 9 6 PPPP EEEE RRRR O O T I N N N 9999 6666 P E R R O O T I N NN 9 6 6 P EEEEE R R OOO T IIIII N N 9999 666 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!uxc.cso.uiuc.edu!ken From: ken@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Ken Primer) Subject: Elvis??? Message-ID: Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner) Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 02:54:22 GMT Lines: 8 So what's this deal about Elvis on Mars? Is he an alien or has he been abducted? -- RUMORS OF MY DEMISE ARE IN FACT... ARE NOT EXAGGERATED! I AM IN FACT DEAD. ken@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu <> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ucselx!newshub.sdsu.edu!voyager4!melissa From: melissa@voyager4.sdsu.edu (Melissa ) Subject: Re: Erich Von Daniken Message-ID: <1992Jul28.074653.19501@newshub.sdsu.edu> Sender: news@newshub.sdsu.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: voyager4.sdsu.edu Organization: San Diego State University, College of Sciences X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4 References: Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 07:46:53 GMT Lines: 56 mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) writes: : Hi, : : melissa@voyager4.sdsu.edu (Melissa ) : I was just wondering if anyone out there took seriously : the theories and claims of famed author and traveler Erich Von : Daniken. : : ... you may want to look for Clifford Wilson's books "Crash go the : Chariots" and "The Chariots still Crash", for further information on : EVD's evidence for his thesis. The sum of the matter is that EVD's : supporting "evidence" is not what he says it is. Here's the : publication information from the Rutgers library catalog: : : : AUTHOR Wilson, Clifford A : TITLE Crash go the chariots / Clifford Wilson. : EDITION Rev. and enl. : PUBLISHER San Diego, Calif. : Master Books, 1976. : : : AUTHOR Wilson, Clifford A. : TITLE The chariots still crash / Clifford Wilson. : PUBLISHER New York : New American Library, [1976] c1975. : : : ... Read those for a another viewpoint on things. I always had : problems with some of EVD's evidence; saying that the Pyramids were : unbuildable without help ignores the amazing engineering genius that : humans (even ancient humans) posses. Its an interesting thesis, of : course, but in my opinion EVD's evidence should not be taken at face : value. (Don't forget the "Gold of the Gods" fiasco.) : : Charles (Please send mail to mike@cadme2.sdsu.edu, not melissa.) Hi, this is Mike again. I am familiar with the fact that "Gold of the Gods" was supposedly written while he was in a jail cell, but I don't recall any real "fiasco". Was this in reference to the so-called depictions of man and dinosaur living at the same time? I do remember a Walter Cronkite special about Von Daniken, where the main theme of the program was the journalist going out and finding natives of the region who claimed to have actually carved those representations onto the stones. Or was the "fiasco" about the "miles of tunnels" which Mr. Moricz discovered and kept such a secret? I did find it strange that, if these tunnels did exist, why wasn't there more archeological work done to bring these facts to the public eye? The book was originally published in 1972, I believe, but I have never heard again of Juan Moricz and his "Tunnels of Gold". Michael Whittington mike@cadme2.sdsu.edu : Charles Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!mips!sdd.hp.com!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ucselx!newshub.sdsu.edu!voyager4!melissa From: melissa@voyager4.sdsu.edu (Melissa ) Subject: The Truth About......... Message-ID: <1992Jul28.082016.20618@newshub.sdsu.edu> Sender: news@newshub.sdsu.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: voyager4.sdsu.edu Organization: San Diego State University, College of Sciences X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4 Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 08:20:16 GMT Lines: 27 (Please send mail to mike@cadme2.sdsu.edu, not melissa.) Hi, this is Mike again. I have recently aqquired a copy of a very interesting video, and would like to find out if anyone else has seen it and what they thought. The name of the video is "The Truth About UFO'S and ET'S". It is a video taped session of what I can only refer to as a "seminar" of some sort. From what I've been able to learn about the author, he travels around to different colleges and such giving these lectures on Extraterrestrials(sp?) and the paranormal. I found it to be a rather engaging 90 min. of mostly slide projection and talking. At the end of the video, he brings in his wife, who claims tbe connected somehow with a superior race of beings who are "seeding" the Earth, or something. (I'll have to watch it again). Anyway, I picked this tape up at Wal-Mart for $4.00, and I think I got my money's worth The authors name is Brad Steiger. I think he's had a few books out along the lines of Erich Von Daniken and such. If you would like to find out more: The Truth About UFO'S and ET'S GOODTIMES HOME VIDEO 401 5th Ave. New York, NY 10016 The video is copyright 1982 Atlan Productions, if that helps any. Michael Whittington mike@cadme2.sdsu.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!stepsun.uni-kl.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) Subject: Re: ***Good_Luck_for_Your_Astral_Convey*** Message-ID: <1992Jul27.160607.1750@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Sender: news@rhrk.uni-kl.de Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany References: <1992Jul23.144307.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> <62712@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 1992 16:06:07 GMT Lines: 21 In article , aero@neptune.ecn.uoknor.edu (Aero Student Account) writes: >John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > >>Dear John H. >>Haven't any time but will comment on this later. >>John Winston. > >Would someone please teach Mr. Winston about the subtleties and >nuances which distinguish "followup" from "reply?" I did that some weeks ago, and he answered thanking me but continued posting instead of mailing, so I put him in my KILL file. That works much better. -- --------------thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany--------------- Do you ask a Napoleon why it has to be Moscow, of all places? Do you ask a Mondrian why one has to paint only in the rectangularly framed primary colours Red, Blue, and Yellow? Ah, how all questions are ruined in view of a persuas- ively recited system of madness! And is there a mortar keeping those systems together firmer than real or supposed enemies? - Robert Gernhardt Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:10992 alt.alien.visitors:7652 sci.skeptic:27987 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: The Prime Directive Message-ID: <62986@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 06:26:26 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <62554@cup.portal.com> <62609@cup.portal.com> <62695@cup.portal.com> <62709@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul27.204837.20643@acuson.com> Lines: 11 Dear Drew and Bob: I'm really not going to say anything to you two wonderful gentlemen because I got about 17 bits of E-mail from a person of the female gender commanding me not to respond to people in a personal manner. That's supposed to be done through E=mail. In accordance with the suggestion that was given to me by Shannon I did send Him-Her a picture of myself through the mail for identification purposes only (just in case I come by in astral projection mode). This picture was sent through the regular post office mail. On yes Drew and Bob. Please don't hold your breath till I respond to you by E-mail. Cheers and all that old stuff. John Winston. From: Alastair.Waddell@p6.f853.n681.z3.fidonet.org (Alastair Waddell) Sender: acsnet@csource.oz.au Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!jabaru.cec.edu.au!csource!acsnet Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Palladians Message-ID: <712318832.F00001@csource.oz.au> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1992 00:34:00 +1000 Lines: 10 Hello All! I have only heard this name (verbally) so the spelling may be incorrect. So who are the Palladians? (not to be confused with "Palladium") Alastair * Origin: The Man in the Iron Mask (3:681/853.6) Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Spaceships Beyond Our Ken(was Re:Elapsed Message-ID: <33267.209924726@kcbbs.gen.nz> From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Date: 28 Jul 92 09:14:27 GMT References: <1992Jul20.205621.13548@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 9 bx304@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff Epler) 20 JUL 92 20:56:21 GMT types- >Say (this is alt.alien.visitors) has this technology been captured >from aliens(of tau ceti) that the CIA has hjad inside the Pentagon >for 73 years. If they are aliens from the planet tau ceti orbiting the star Tau Ceti they should have over 60 years to recover it. Anyway why tau ceti & why 73 years???.. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!rpi!bu.edu!cvbnet!root From: root@cvbnet.prime.com (cvbnet) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll Message-ID: <3620@cvbnetPrime.COM> Date: 28 Jul 92 15:34:31 GMT References: <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: postnews@cvbnetPrime.COM Lines: 5 yes [X] John,please refrain from posting what should be email responses to this newsgroup. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Erich Von Daniken Message-ID: Date: 28 Jul 92 14:56:12 GMT References: <1992Jul28.074653.19501@newshub.sdsu.edu> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 11 mike@cadme2.sdsu.edu writes (sorry about that, Mike): ..."Gold of the Gods"...but I don't recall any real "fiasco". .... well, I was actually referring to his interview in "Playboy" in which he (after evading vigorously) admitted that he had not actually been in the cave, or even been near where he said it was (even though he claimed in the book, as I recall, to have seen the gold). Charles "I buy for the articles" McGrew Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7657 alt.conspiracy:17185 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!caen!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!parsifal.umkc.edu!UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU!SKTHOMA Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Subject: Re: steamshovel Message-ID: <168328196.SKTHOMA@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU> From: SKTHOMA@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU (Kenn Thomas) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 14:11:27 GMT Sender: root@parsifal.umkc.edu (Parsifal Administration) References: <4oFTNB3w165w@utopia.hacktic.nl> <1992Jul14.002441.370@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> Organization: UM ST. LOUIS Lines: 27 In article <4oFTNB3w165w@utopia.hacktic.nl> gary@utopia.hacktic.nl (Gary Stollman) writes: >SEE ? I am everywhere ! It's impossible to implant me with one of your >crystals.. We did it last week, glasshead, when you were in the shower playing with yourself. -- "I mean the clearing out of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish race. It's one of those things it is easy to talk about -- `The Jewish race is being exterminated,' says one party member, `that's quite clear, it's in our program -- elimination of the Jews, and we're doing it, exterminating them.'"[Himmler] I'm trying to post to this list but the set up here is very confusing. Please forgive the intrusion. My main purpose is to contact potentials readers of and writers for Steamshovel Press, a conpsiracy theory magazine. The current issu e of SP contains interviews with Mark Lane, Kerry Thornley, Dick Gregory and Ji m Marrs; an article on AIDS cures; a "saucer section" with UFO speculations; cr iticism of Noam Chomsky. Previous issues have had material on the CIA's involv ement with Abbie Hoffman's death; the Pentagon origins of AIDS; stuff on Wilhel m Reich. The next issue, under production, includes an article on Reich's FOIA file; an overview of INSLAW and the Danny Casaloro case; something on the Shrou d of Turin; an interview with Deborah Davis, who wrote Katharine The Great, abo out Mary Pinchot Meyer, Bob Woodward and Nixon, etc. Anyway, we're always looki ng for contributions from the conspiracy minded for future issues and this post ,if I can get this to work right, is just such an appeal. Contact me at this e -mail address or at 5927 Kingsbury, St. Louis, MO 63112. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7658 sci.skeptic:27992 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ncar!noao!amethyst!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!air.atmo.arizona.edu!briggs From: briggs@air.atmo.arizona.edu (William Briggs) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: astral travel Message-ID: <1992Jul28.151213.9185@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> Date: 28 Jul 92 15:12:13 GMT References: <1992Jul22.193835.3751@acd4.acd.com> <62637@cup.portal.com> <62915@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu Organization: Department of Atmospheric Physics Lines: 7 Hate to chime in on an already tedious subject; but, Martin Gardner has an excellent article on old "third-eye" Rampa in his book on the New Age. Naturally, I have forgotten the exact title, but it's by Prometheus books, printed on fine acid-free paper. mb Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!ucla-se!seashell!mitch From: mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll Keywords: Get a clue numb----. Message-ID: <7717@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> Date: 28 Jul 92 16:04:22 GMT References: <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@SEAS.UCLA.EDU Organization: Cyberdyne Systems Lines: 17 In article <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: > >The choices are: > no [X] John, continue with your irratating ways. We love to read all of your responses to questions & flames that we have never seen. -- DISCLAIMER: | Bob Mitchell "Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | mitch@ea.ucla.edu "Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified] "Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy | 1987 VT700c Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7660 alt.conspiracy:17187 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!walter!phelix!mdl From: mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch) Subject: Re: steamshovel Message-ID: <1992Jul28.160310.20844@walter.bellcore.com> Sender: news@walter.bellcore.com Nntp-Posting-Host: phelix.bellcore.com Reply-To: mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch) Organization: Bellcore References: <4oFTNB3w165w@utopia.hacktic.nl> <1992Jul14.002441.370@oneb.almanac.bc.ca> <168328196.SKTHOMA@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 16:03:10 GMT Lines: 40 In article <168328196.SKTHOMA@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU>, SKTHOMA@UMSLVMA.UMSL.EDU (Kenn Thomas) writes: |> In article <4oFTNB3w165w@utopia.hacktic.nl> gary@utopia.hacktic.nl (Gary Stollman) writes: |> |> >SEE ? I am everywhere ! It's impossible to implant me with one of your |> >crystals.. |> |> We did it last week, glasshead, when you were in the shower playing with |> yourself. |> |> -- |> "I mean the clearing out of the Jews, the extermination of the Jewish race. |> It's one of those things it is easy to talk about -- `The Jewish race is being |> exterminated,' says one party member, `that's quite clear, it's in our program |> -- elimination of the Jews, and we're doing it, exterminating them.'"[Himmler] |> I'm trying to post to this list but the set up here is very confusing. Please |> forgive the intrusion. My main purpose is to contact potentials readers of and |> writers for Steamshovel Press, a conpsiracy theory magazine. The current issu |> e of SP contains interviews with Mark Lane, Kerry Thornley, Dick Gregory and Ji |> m Marrs; an article on AIDS cures; a "saucer section" with UFO speculations; cr |> iticism of Noam Chomsky. Previous issues have had material on the CIA's involv |> ement with Abbie Hoffman's death; the Pentagon origins of AIDS; stuff on Wilhel |> m Reich. The next issue, under production, includes an article on Reich's FOIA |> file; an overview of INSLAW and the Danny Casaloro case; something on the Shrou |> d of Turin; an interview with Deborah Davis, who wrote Katharine The Great, abo |> out Mary Pinchot Meyer, Bob Woodward and Nixon, etc. Anyway, we're always looki |> ng for contributions from the conspiracy minded for future issues and this post |> ,if I can get this to work right, is just such an appeal. Contact me at this e |> -mail address or at 5927 Kingsbury, St. Louis, MO 63112. I'm not sure what this is -- a very long .sig, or a request of some sort. However, I do have a subject for the next issue of Steamshovel Press. I saw it on a bumper sticker the other day. Humpty Dumpty was pushed. We really should know more about this. Was there CIA involvement, perhaps? Mike Lynch Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!balrog!ctron.com From: smith@ctron.com (Larry Smith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <4607@balrog.ctron.com> Date: 28 Jul 92 20:05:15 GMT References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61258@cup.portal.com> <62793@cup.portal.com> Sender: usenet@balrog.ctron.com Reply-To: smith@ctron.com Organization: Cabletron Systems, Inc. Lines: 30 Nntp-Posting-Host: glinda In article <62793@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: John, there are many very weird groups that have many very weird people who post to them, and there are no groups at all that are weirder than alt.alien. visitors, nor do people come any weirder than some that post in this group. But, John, you are abusing the privilege, and you may be the first person I have ever heard of who might really profit from professional help or a good long talk with the clergyperson of your choice. I certainly don't think you can get much worse. If you refuse, as I expect you will, you should at least learn that: A) Usenet does not guarantee your posts will arrive in the order in which they were sent. B) Usenet does not guarantee your posts will sort in order or even together, if they, perchance, arrive on the same day. C) Usenet does not require you break up all your posts into five-line snippets, you can just post your message and be done with it. D) You should run right out and read "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" by Julian Jaynes. In fact, it should be required reading of anyone before reading this newsgroup, as it explains a great deal of what I see posted here. Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com) No, I don't speak for Cabletron. ------------------------------------------------------------- Daily I'd go over to Congress - that grand old benevolent national asylum - and report on the inmates there. Never seen a body of men with tongues more handy, or information more uncertain. If one of those men had been present when the Deity was on the point of saying "Let there be light" we never would've had it. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.claremont.edu!ucivax!noiro.acs.uci.edu!ttinews!avatar!sorgatz From: sorgatz@avatar.tti.com (sorgatz) Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll Message-ID: <1992Jul28.195509.10875@ttinews.tti.com> Keywords: Get a clue numb----. Sender: usenet@ttinews.tti.com (Usenet Admin) Nntp-Posting-Host: avatar.tti.com Organization: Transaction Technology Inc. References: <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1992 19:55:09 GMT Lines: 48 In article <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: >Hello any & everybody, > >Mabye John will get the MESSAGE this way?!?! All those in favor of dear old >John_-_Winston sending e-mail instead of posting his responses to the world >at large , please post a RE: to this message to let the post happy >bandwidth burner >know we are all growing weary of his blatent disregard for information >dissemination in an organized & efficient manner.The next step of course >would be to contact the NETWORK POLICE to give him a keyboard enema. > >The choices are: > >yes [X] John,please refrain from posting what should be email responses to >this newsgroup. > >no [ ] John, continue with your irratating ways. We love to read all of >your responses to questions & flames that we have never seen. > >the old moronic no opinion [ ] What a stupid idea in the first place,who >cares about someone with no opinion. > >Rod > >-- >Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ >Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, >rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." > |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ > > > > OK, so it's *not* just my observation..phew!..I hadn't mentioned it for fear of being flame-broiled by everyone for the mere suggestion that some net manners might be in order...therefore, list this one as: yes [X] PLEASE JOHN, take it to email! (three cosmic cheers for Rod's Poll..tnx!) -Avatar-> (aka: Erik K. Sorgatz) KB6LUY +-------------------------+ Citicorp(+)TTI *----------> panic trap; type = N+1 * 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. Santa Monica, CA 90405 +-------------------------+ {philabs,psivax,pyramid,rutgers}!ttidca!sorgatz (or sorgatz@ttidca.TTI.COM) Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: The Truth About......... Message-ID: <63006@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 17:14:04 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul28.082016.20618@newshub.sdsu.edu> Lines: 10 Dear Mike: I saw your statement about the tape and it interested me. If it's OK with your I'd like to give you my opinion about the person that put out the tape (Brad Stieger). I have read his books for more than 15 years and they are all very good. He wrote Star Seed. I believe the other one was Star People. I met him last summer in a UFO club convention and we talked for a while. His wife is a very beautiful person and I do believe that she can channel some very nice entities from the spirtual world and the space people. So you've got a good tape although I have not seen it myself I am aware of the information he puts out. He is also written up quite often in the tabloid magazines. John Winston Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll Message-ID: <63008@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 17:26:38 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> Lines: 2 Dear People: I have been reading your posting and will thinks about them. John Winston. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Adamski?? Message-ID: <63011@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 17:47:16 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul25.185603.2889@mach4.wlu.ca> Lines: 11 Dear Seeker of Truth: If I might be permitted I will attempt to give you my opinion of George Adamski. It has been my good pleasure to read all of the books about and by Mr. Adamski. Back during the 1950s their were many people who took rides in flying saucers. One of them was G. A. Some of the people that he came in contact with were from Venus. They were the nice looking blond (usually) and sometimes had page boy type haircuts. George had a contact with a being in the desert I think near Landers, Calif. on the road to Parker, Nevada. Those who have contact with space people were called contactees. Last summer I went to the same spot where G. A. had his contact and it was quite an experience. The people from Venus are referred to------John Winston Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Adamski?? Message-ID: <63012@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 17:58:44 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul25.185603.2889@mach4.wlu.ca> Lines: 10 ----as Nords because they look like Nordic Earth People. On their own planet the people of Venus are on a different vibrational frequency than us and we probuly couldn't see them unless we were altered aboard one of their craft for a while before we got there. This usually gives us a tingling feeling for a while but is not unpleasant. We did not accept the help of the Venus people but we did make a contract with the Greys (Zetta Reticulians) and they do look a lot different. I hope this has answered some of your questions. My friend Kelvin Rowe (a contactee) knew G. A. personally and had a high respect for him. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 02:22:11 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <61258@cup.portal.com> <62793@cup.portal.com> <4607@balrog.ctron.com> Lines: 44 In article <4607@balrog.ctron.com> smith@ctron.com writes: >In article <62793@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > >John, there are many very weird groups that have many very weird people who >post to them, and there are no groups at all that are weirder than alt.alien. >visitors, nor do people come any weirder than some that post in this group. > >But, John, you are abusing the privilege, and you may be the first person I >have ever heard of who might really profit from professional help or a good >long talk with the clergyperson of your choice. I certainly don't think you >can get much worse. > >If you refuse, as I expect you will, you should at least learn that: > >A) Usenet does not guarantee your posts will arrive in the order in which they > were sent. >B) Usenet does not guarantee your posts will sort in order or even together, if > they, perchance, arrive on the same day. >C) Usenet does not require you break up all your posts into five-line snippets, > you can just post your message and be done with it. This can be explained simply in that John Winston is a computer novice who has yet to figure how to invoke the editor in Portal. If you do not invoke the editor (choices are vi and ed), you get one screen full of text, which is what we see in his posts. Depending upon how you look at it, this may be a blessing. This has a simple explanation, the rest speaks for itself I'm afraid. >D) You should run right out and read "The Origin of Consciousness in the > Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" by Julian Jaynes. In fact, it should > be required reading of anyone before reading this newsgroup, as it explains > a great deal of what I see posted here. > >Larry Smith (smith@ctron.com) No, I don't speak for Cabletron. >------------------------------------------------------------- Rich payner@netcom.com Who does -not- have an obnoxious sig yet... :^) Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!shrimp.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@shrimp.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll Keywords: Get a clue numb----. Message-ID: <1992Jul29.032915.21819@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 29 Jul 92 03:29:15 GMT References: <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: wilbur@shrimp.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 38 In article <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com>, rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: |> Hello any & everybody, |> |> Mabye John will get the MESSAGE this way?!?! All those in favor of dear old |> John_-_Winston sending e-mail instead of posting his responses to the world |> at large , please post a RE: to this message to let the post happy |> bandwidth burner |> know we are all growing weary of his blatent disregard for information |> dissemination in an organized & efficient manner.The next step of course |> would be to contact the NETWORK POLICE to give him a keyboard enema. |> |> The choices are: |> |> yes [X] John,please refrain from posting what should be email responses to |> this newsgroup. |> |> no [ ] John, continue with your irratating ways. We love to read all of |> your responses to questions & flames that we have never seen. |> |> the old moronic no opinion [ ] What a stupid idea in the first place,who |> cares about someone with no opinion. |> |> Rod |> |> -- |> Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |> Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, |> rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |> |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |> |> |> |> YES, PLEASE REFRAIN FROM POSTING WHAT SHOULD BE EMAIL RESPONSES TO THIS NEWSGROUP. BRICK Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Fortify Message-ID: <33041.2109215678@kcbbs.gen.nz> From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Date: 29 Jul 92 09:10:41 GMT References: Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 11 mathew@mantis.co.uk(mathew) 27 Jul 92 12:27:42 types- >So you'd get people asking what Forteana are & who Charles Fort was. I,ve long wondered is he from where the word "forte " comes from?. ************************* ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL? ************************* Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uunet!munnari.oz.au!deakin.OZ.AU!fulcrum.oz.au!steve From: steve@fulcrum.oz.au (Steve Taylor) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Kill file Message-ID: <1992Jul29.080259.10115@fulcrum.oz.au> Date: 29 Jul 92 08:02:59 GMT References: <1992Jul25.184044.1606@mach4.wlu.ca> <62899@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Fulcrum Consulting Group Lines: 13 In <62899@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Kevin: >I believe that if you use the commands subscribe and unsubscribe it >will give you what you want. Then again, you could reply to personal mail by using the 'r' key instead of the 'f' key. >John Winston. Steve Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Spaceships Beyond Our Ken(was Re:Elapsed Message-ID: <63052@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 05:34:10 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul20.205621.13548@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> <33267.209924726@kcbbs.gen.nz> Lines: 36 In article <33267.209924726@kcbbs.gen.nz> Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) writes: | bx304@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff Epler) 20 JUL 92 20:56:21 GMT types- | >Say (this is alt.alien.visitors) has this technology been captured | >from aliens(of tau ceti) that the CIA has hjad inside the Pentagon | >for 73 years. | | If they are aliens from the planet tau ceti orbiting the star Tau Ceti | they should have over 60 years to recover it. | Anyway why tau ceti & why 73 years???.. Even more, why should ANY of this be believed when simple, easily-verifiable facts are erroneously stated. For example, the Pentagon (in Arlington VA) was built between 1941 and 1942. Its foundation can be no older than 51 years, so there's NO WAY the CIA (or any other agency) could have sequestered aliens inside the building for 73 years. The CIA itself hasn't existed that long, being "founded" (so to speak) in 1947 as the successor to the NIA (founded on Jan. 22, 1946) which itself was the successor to the OSS which started operations June 13, 1942. Finally, what evidence can be presented showing a planet named "tau ceti" orbits Tau Ceti? Our sun is a G2 main sequence star; Tau Ceti is 11.8 light years distant and is a G8 type which makes it a "likely" candidate for possessing earth-like planets possibly harboring life, but neither planets nor life have yet been observed (HST problems notwithstanding). Sorry, but "Stee-rike THREE; yer OUT!" Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11014 alt.alien.visitors:7673 sci.skeptic:28026 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: The Prime Directive Message-ID: <63053@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 06:27:08 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <62554@cup.portal.com> <62609@cup.portal.com> <62695@cup.portal.com> <62709@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul27.204837.20643@acuson.com> <62986@cup.portal.com> Lines: 11 Dear Everybody: I was asked by Debra where the ruins of the 30,000 year old city is? It extends from Point Conception to Escondito from North to South and from the Channel Islands to the mountains north of Malibu. I was taken 10 miles up the coast from Malibu, up a road that sounded like the word Decker, over to split rock park, up an old Army road, past a abandoned Boy Scout camp, past some old water tanks and there you are. It seems I'm still in Kumar's dreams and everybody and his dog seems to be on this astral convoy. Oh yes I look a lot better (and everybody else does too) in the spiritual or astral body. So long till tonight because 1100 PM wednesday is take off time again. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!polaris!polaris!sara.cc.utu.fi!shanwang From: shanwang@sara.cc.utu.fi Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll Message-ID: <1992Jul29.162146.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> Followup-To: re:john_-_winston poll Lines: 22 Sender: usenet@polaris.utu.fi (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: sara.cc.utu.fi Organization: University of Turku, Finland References: <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 29 Jul 92 16:21:46 EET Lines: 22 >>------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Helleo, every one there :) >> >> I guess taht Mr. winston is a science fiction author and always would >> like to post his new inspiration to Net. Let it be, please :) >> >> Let everyone who don't like to read those fiction stuff just skip it:) >> As we know most of enthusiasm in this group are serious scholars. >> >> Well, let it be, Please :) Because I think there is still a lot of >> readers who are interested in reading those stuffs. Otherwise the group >> will be full of complaining message rather than Mr. Winston's fiction >> stuffs :) I remembered that once Einstan said, imagination is >> most important to a scientist, isn't it? :) So I vote for Winston :) >> >> Cheers, >> >> W.S. >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!+ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 09:39:15 -0400 From: Chris_Hendy@transarc.com Subject: Re: John_Winston poll Lines: 39 OK - I was content to just be a lurker and chuckle with the rest of you -- but John Winston writes - > Dear People: I have been reading your posting and will thinks about them. This after many impassioned pleas to refrain from upchucking on the net. I suggest sending bogus replies to fictitious people directly to him - something along the lines of: Dear Astraldoggy, Woke up last night and took an awe-inspiring dump. I strained so much I saw God cavorting with the Greys. Nirvana was short-lived however, when I realized I was fresh out of toilet paper. Fortunately, I've learned many tricks from Rover and promptly butt-slid across the carpet. Rover was pissed because he knew he was going to get the blame ... (you get the idea) Maybe after he's slogged through several dozen pointless posts, he'll see the wisdom of changing his ways. Chris Disclaimer: My company prefers Greys on toast with Hollandaise sauce ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Hendy | Gulf Tower | Internet: chris@transarc.com DBA-DataBase Anarchist | 707 Grant Street | Voice: +1 412 338-4460 Transarc Corporation | Pittsburgh PA 15219 | FAX: +1 412 338-4404 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- It would be like a man, dying of thirst in the desert, begging for water and getting an increase in humidity in reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7676 alt.paranormal:5528 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!m2.dseg.ti.com!mmeyer From: mmeyer@m2.dseg.ti.com (Mark Meyer) Subject: Re: Missing & Mutilated Humans Organization: TI DSEG, Spring Creek, Plano, Tx. In-Reply-To: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM's message of 16 Jul 1992 02:46:11 GMT References: Message-ID: Lines: 10 Sender: mmeyer@m2.dseg.ti.com (Mark Meyer) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 16:31:49 GMT In article jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) writes: > The author sought out Dr. Ajaja after his talk to confirm and amplify his > claim. When asked how many humans were found mutilated, he said three, two > in Russia and one in Chile. Russia and Chile? I don't think an extraterrestrial explanation is needed here... -- Mark Meyer | mmeyer@dseg.ti.com | Texas Instruments, Inc. +--------------------+ Every day, Jerry Junkins is grateful that I don't speak for TI. "I just can NOT handle weirdness..." - Boy George Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!psuvax1!uxa.ecn.bgu.edu!cfkfb From: cfkfb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Karl Bridges) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: feed JW to the Greys Summary: Feed John Winston to the Greys Message-ID: <1992Jul29.154559.17720@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> Date: 29 Jul 92 15:45:59 GMT Organization: Educational Computing Network Lines: 4 Could we arrange to feed John Winston to the Greys. Perhaps staking him out somewhere where they've been active. Big sign visible from orbit "Free Eats" Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11015 alt.alien.visitors:7678 sci.skeptic:28031 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!hri.com!merrimack.edu!caina From: caina@merrimack.edu Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Jul29.115154.2041@merrimack.edu> Date: 29 Jul 92 11:51:54 GMT References: <62886@cup.portal.com> Organization: Merrimack College, No. Andover, MA, USA Lines: 13 In article <62886@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear Dan: I wish that I had you with me yesterday down in Souther Calif. > on a 5 miles hike into some American Indian ancient country. That would > have taken some of the starch out of your levies. We were in an area > where people have sightings of what the indians call Thunderbird and > what scientist call the pterodactyl. > John Winston. And what everyone else calls a bad drug trip. Are you sure you weren't tripping and watching the "Flinstones" at the same time? Next you'll be telling us Bigfoot is Elvis' love child. Alex Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11022 alt.alien.visitors:7679 sci.skeptic:28035 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30 From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Get Off John's Back Please! Message-ID: Date: 29 Jul 92 17:28:09 GMT References: Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com Reply-To: dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 31 In article hillman@carina.unm.edu (Dan Hillman) writes: > >Dear John, > >Your (sic) right; I fudge my Levis in glee every time I see one of >you're (sic) posts. > >I am amazed that fully half of the traffic of this newsgroup is comprised >of your three-line messages ("I'm having an astral wank, everybody!"), >empty posts (" "), and one-screen text dumps. > >Call me a skeptic, but I would think an intelligent life form who >wanted information distributed would get in touch with someone who had >a clue. > Come on guys! Give the guy a break. I know John and he's a really nice man. If you don'l like his posts then skip them. But geeze why so hostile? Freedom of speech is for everyone not just the people you agree with! Denise -- ========================================================================= >>>>>>>>>>>|| Copyright (c) Denise faith Solis 1992 ||<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>|| dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com ||<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11027 alt.alien.visitors:7680 sci.skeptic:28037 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!uwm.edu!news.bbn.com!ingria From: ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: John's Astral Convoy (Was: Re: The Prime Directive) Date: 29 Jul 1992 18:04:54 GMT Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <62554@cup.portal.com> <62609@cup.portal.com> <62695@cup.portal.com> <62709@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul27.204837.20643@acuson.com> <62986@cup.portal.com> <63053@cup.portal.com> Reply-To: ingria@BBN.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com In-reply-to: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com's message of 29 Jul 92 13:27:08 GMT In article <63053@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: So long till tonight because 1100 PM wednesday is take off time again. You keep saying this. The question is ``1100 PM wednesday'' in what timezone? How are people supposed to know when to meet you if you don't specify this and allow them to correct for timezone difference, if necessary? -30- Bob ``...livin' in my own private Idaho...'' Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Extraterrestrials honored Message-ID: <63059@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 11:39:18 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 20 This item on page D5 of the Wednesday, July 29, 1992, San Francisco Chronicle, in "The Column of Lists" article by David Wallenchinksy and Amy Wallace: `` EXTRATERRESTRIALS HONORED In February 1992 Scotland unveiled what may be the world's first monument to a UFO. A plaque in West Lothian commemorates a forestry worker's 1979 sighting of a 30-foot-wide spaceship that hovered over him and ripped off his clothes. '' "Ripped-off" as in "stolen" or "stripped him starkers"? "spaceship" or "aerial jellyfish with tentacles"? Nothing like complete, accurate and total reporting. :-) What ever happened to the "Who, What, When, Where, Why and How" of reporting? Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!amigans!ed From: ed@amigans.gen.nz (Edward Kitto) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: John Winstone Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 21:19:42 GMT Organization: Wanganui Amigans, Wanganui, New Zealand Lines: 23 John Winstone writes: >Dear Press: You made the statement, John you would be God. This statement >that you made in jest is actually the ultimate goal of enlightment and >that is to be at one with God. Then you would know everything. >John Winston. Now John, you should realise that your ethos itself is misguided. Salvation is in the seeking. The realisation of your stated goal would result in a worse Hell than Nietzsche's eternal recurrence. You would do better to look to folklore than try to invent your own reality. The expression "God (only) knows" is in the vernacular for a reason. As a precursor to the self-styled boundary riders who call themselves flamers - you are right, this is a violation of "netiquette", but your methods have not worked to date. Neither will this - lemmings are hard to head off. ed@amigans.gen.nz (Edward Kitto) Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!rpi!uwm.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Why America ? Message-ID: Date: 29 Jul 92 18:48:36 GMT References: <1992Jul23.114610@axion.bt.co.uk> <1992Jul23.140405.2340@csc.ti.com> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 53 >>achaplin@axion.bt.co.uk (Anthony Chaplin) writes: >> >>I have a question for all you Phoenix Project fans out there >> >> Why America, why not the old Soviet Union ? >alanj@dadd.ti.com (Alan Jones,AMJ1,) >Good point. In fact, why not Antartica, northern Canada, or the >middle of an ocean? The only reasons I can think of would be: > > a. They are working with Americans which require access to the base. > b. Their work is in that area ...and fuel requirements for > transits to/from the more remote locations is prohibitive. > c. Their work is in that area, and transits to/from more remote locations > would increase the probability of detection. .... It depends on what you may think of as the history(s) of alien/human contact. * If you're a they've-always-been-here person, then clearly the presence of a base in the continental US would be by pure chance. (And if the aliens were here to watch humans, the US would be a lousy place to look until quite recently.) * If you're a they-arrived-in-1964 person, then the 'selection' of the US is due simply because they were contacting humans in the US -- any cooperative ventures (regardless of "deeper motives", whatever they might be) would require some sort of joint-run installation on earth, inside the US. * If you're a since-WWII type, then the 'selection' of the US would have been due to the technological superiority (read "we got the bomb, we stole the rockets"), and again we're back to a joint-run installation, again inside the US (from a US point of view, to "keep an eye on" and control whatever products came from such research.) * If you're a steal-humans/zombie 'fan', or cattle-mutilation 'fan', or indeed a no-direct-contact 'fan', then things get a little more difficult, since quick communication (phone, radio, etc.) in the industrialized portions of the planet make the possibility of events "getting out" much more likely -- keeping things secret for many years is no guarantee that is will be secret tomorrow; the risk is too high. If a base is required at all, it'd be placed in a remote area, under the sea, or entirely off-planet. (On the other hand, if the aliens were here for a long time, the US would classify for most of planet-time as fairly deserted.... what is the sound of one hand clapping... it goes around and around and it comes out here. This stuff gets really complicated, ya know?) Charles Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!mips!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Kill file Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 17:24:10 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Jul25.184044.1606@mach4.wlu.ca> <62899@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul29.080259.10115@fulcrum.oz.au> Lines: 24 In article <1992Jul29.080259.10115@fulcrum.oz.au> steve@fulcrum.oz.au (Steve Taylor) writes: >In <62899@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > >>Dear Kevin: >>I believe that if you use the commands subscribe and unsubscribe it >>will give you what you want. > >Then again, you could reply to personal mail by using the 'r' key instead of >the 'f' key. Portal does not offer rn, trn, nn, or any regular news reader. Their system is unique. From portal one could enter 'mail send', and reply to the poster, but there is no direct way to import the text of the original post. >>John Winston. > > > Steve Rich payner@netcom.com Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11028 alt.alien.visitors:7685 sci.skeptic:28043 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Subject: Re: Get Off John's Back Please! Message-ID: <1992Jul29.185219.29352@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Lines: 24 Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Reply-To: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 18:52:19 GMT > >I am amazed that fully half of the traffic of this newsgroup is comprised >of your three-line messages ("I'm having an astral wank, everybody!"), >empty posts (" "), and one-screen text dumps. > >Call me a skeptic, but I would think an intelligent life form who >wanted information distributed would get in touch with someone who had >a clue. > > Come on guys! Give the guy a break. I know John and he's a really > nice man. If you don'l like his posts then skip them. But geeze > why so hostile? Freedom of speech is for everyone not just the > people you agree with! > Denise It's not a question of freedom of speach it's the quality/quantity of John messages. It is rediculous and should be tempered. Steve Food_for_the_Grays Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!boulder!ucsu!cubldr.colorado.edu!matthews_k From: matthews_k@cubldr.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Fortify Message-ID: <1992Jul29.124542.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Lines: 25 Sender: news@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder References: <33041.2109215678@kcbbs.gen.nz> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1992 19:45:42 GMT Lines: 25 In article <33041.2109215678@kcbbs.gen.nz>, Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) writes: > mathew@mantis.co.uk(mathew) 27 Jul 92 12:27:42 types- >>So you'd get people asking what Forteana are & who Charles Fort was. > > I,ve long wondered is he from where the word "forte " comes from?. > > ************************* > ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY > OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING > TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL? > ************************* I read this group with some amusement, dismay, and interest, but have not posted before. No, "forte" is not from Charles Fort. It is from old french, "forte" meaning strong. Dictionaries are not difficult to use. or was there supposed to be a :-) on that message? P.S. I agree with Mr. Beckwith. Mr. Winston should refrain from posting personal e-mail on the net. Kellie Matthews-Simmons internet: matthews_k@cubldr.colorado.edu Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11030 alt.alien.visitors:7687 sci.skeptic:28047 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!lynx!triton.unm.edu!jennyb From: jennyb@triton.unm.edu (Jenny Ballmann) Subject: Re: Get Off John's Back Please! Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 19:37:35 GMT Organization: Diplomacy 'R' Us References: <1992Jul29.185219.29352@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Lines: 28 In article <1992Jul29.185219.29352@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () writes: > >> Come on guys! Give the guy a break. I know John and he's a really >> nice man. If you don'l like his posts then skip them. But geeze >> why so hostile? Freedom of speech is for everyone not just the >> people you agree with! > >> Denise > > It's not a question of freedom of speach it's the quality/quantity > of John messages. It is rediculous and should be tempered. > He made the top 25 posters by number of articles list. That's for the whole net, folks. He outdid Mutlu. Since you know him, Denise, why don't you teach him the difference between email and posts, and what he is doing to piss people off? Can you explain to him that these "Dear Dan" type messages are being copied not just to "Dan", but to tens of thousands of people, who have to pay in one way or another for it? This is assuming he doesn't know it already, and is not *trying* to look clueless. Jenny -- The future will be better tomorrow. -- Vice President Dan Quayle Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11031 alt.alien.visitors:7688 sci.skeptic:28053 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!darwin.sura.net!mips!sdd.hp.com!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!noc.msc.net!uc.msc.edu!shamash!duke!dternes From: dternes@duke.cdc.com (David Ternes) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Get Off John's Back Please! Message-ID: <45868@shamash.cdc.com> Date: 29 Jul 92 20:28:21 GMT References: <1992Jul29.185219.29352@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Sender: usenet@shamash.cdc.com Reply-To: dternes@mips.COM (David Ternes) Followup-To: talk.religion.newage Organization: Advanced Product Development Lines: 20 > > Come on guys! Give the guy a break. I know John and he's a really > nice man. If you don'l like his posts then skip them. But geeze > why so hostile? Freedom of speech is for everyone not just the > people you agree with! > > Denise > Come on Denise! Give us a break. I know everyone and they're all really nice. If you don'l like our posts then skip them. But geeze why so hostile? Freedom of speech is for everyone not just the people you agree with! David ;-) E. David J. Ternes dternes@udev.cdc.com Goal: To live either in obscurity or in competance. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM!lpb From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Hatton: CIA or ET? Message-ID: <9207292109.AA03581@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> Date: 29 Jul 92 21:09:38 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Lines: 11 There is a growing body of people (myself included) who feel that Hatton is a joke and Green is actively working with the CIA to produce disinformation regarding UFOs and ETS. I always did like a good mystery! ;^) Does anyone have anything at all regarding Green? If you do please Email to lpb@stratus.swdc.stratus.com Thank You Len Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!centerline!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Rogue Agent) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Spaceships Beyond Our Ken(was Re: Elapsed Message-ID: <1992Jul29.213519.16773@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 29 Jul 92 21:35:19 GMT References: <1992Jul20.205621.13548@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> <33267.209924726@kcbbs.gen.nz> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 9 bx304@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff Epler) 20 JUL 92 20:56:21 GMT types- >Say (this is alt.alien.visitors) has this technology been captured >from aliens(of tau ceti) that the CIA has hjad inside the Pentagon >for 73 years. This would be a really neat trick, especially as neither the Pentagon nor the CIA has been in existence that long. RA Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!reese From: reese@vax.oxford.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Message-ID: <1992Jul29.152133.7895@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Date: 29 Jul 92 14:21:33 GMT References: <1992Jun14.192328.11396@cco.caltech.edu><1992Jun15.000927.14468@uwm.edu> <62928@cup.portal.com> Followup-To: talk.bizarre Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster Lines: 19 In article <62928@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear Future Astral Astronauts: In my last report of the Astral Convoy > I made a few slight mistakes. The person called K. should have been J. > J. lived in Penn. USA rather than Hawaii. E. forgot to go on the journey > but his higher self took off on time and did make contact with J. I > don't know what J. looks like but I think I got a picture in my mind > of E. Shannon passed out according to the information I got from E. and > wasn't aware of anything. We don't know whether Shannon is a girl or boy > but we don't want to ask because Shannon will think we're trying to cheat. > Kumar turned out to be in the USA rather than Germany but he never could > get his mind altogether. So we have a little room for improvement. We have > a person from England named Linda that wants in on some of this action. JW No, you mean K. and J. went with E. to see L. get in a spaceship with X. I don't think Z. would like it that you get things messed up in this way. If Linda wants in on some of this action, give her my email address and we'll see what we can do. J. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7692 talk.bizarre:68063 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!reese From: reese@vax.oxford.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre Subject: Re: ALIEN GREETZ Message-ID: <1992Jul29.152442.7896@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Date: 29 Jul 92 14:24:42 GMT References: <1992Jul28.124019.1@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au> Followup-To: talk.bizarre Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster Lines: 12 In article <1992Jul28.124019.1@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au>, edc432ysys@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au writes: > Saalome gam naan ben uurda gan neeber asaal hesporoona > > HI ya! > > If you know what this means please contact me ! Salami gum not-a-number been under gun needing astral hernia. How's that? Jason Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7693 talk.bizarre:68064 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!reese From: reese@vax.oxford.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre Subject: Re: Ley Linesj Message-ID: <1992Jul29.152702.7897@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Date: 29 Jul 92 14:27:02 GMT References: <62440@cup.portal.com> <62518@cup.portal.com><62582@cup.portal.com> <+6fmdv@lynx.unm.edu> <62611@cup.portal.com> <62936@cup.portal.com> Followup-To: talk.bizarre Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster Lines: 12 In article <62936@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > --the Goddess and other planets and other constellations that she speaks > to, so when you are looking at these two barbells which are symbolical > of these particular configurations and you have two parallel lines that > are very close together and usually on either side of these circles, > these little parallel lines indicate the {specific} transformation doorways > for the earth and her conciousness. End of Part 3. > John Winston. Anyone know what all this rubbish is about? Answers on a postcard please. Jason Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7694 talk.bizarre:68065 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!reese From: reese@vax.oxford.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll Message-ID: <1992Jul29.153032.7898@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Date: 29 Jul 92 14:30:32 GMT References: <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> <63008@cup.portal.com> Followup-To: talk.bizarre Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster Lines: 7 In article <63008@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear People: I have been reading your posting and will thinks about them. > John Winston. what does will think about them? does he like them? Jason Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7695 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1996 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!infopiz!lupine!motcsd!udc!mcdphx!ennews!telesys!isus!hoyt Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterr Message-ID: <1992Jul27.031252.5562@isus.UUCP> From: hoyt@isus.UUCP (Hoyt A. Stearns jr.) Date: 27 Jul 92 03:12:52 GMT Followup-To: alt.sci.physics.new-theories References: <1992Jul22.131739.1@cc.newcastle.edu.au> <1992Jul22.150401.15820@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl> Organization: International Society of Unified Science Keywords: superluminal Summary: Followup Lines: 30 In article <1992Jul23.080318.25996@fys.ruu.nl> spiering@fys.ruu.nl (Geert Spiering) writes: >I hope this adds to the discussion, but since everyone keeps repeating >the statement that nothing can travel faster than light, i would like >to bring up tachyons. >Einsteins theory only states that nothing can travel WITH the speed of >light. This means that you cannot accelerate to above the speed of light >from velocities less than the speed of light. (An infinite amount of >energy would be necessary). >However there may be particles that ALWAYS travell at velocities > c. >The catch is, that these particles would have to have imaginary masses. >One could still associate real energies to these particles, that are >singular at v=c. This means that these particles cannot slow down to >velocitiesOf course, no one has ever seen particles with imaginary masses.... If for no other reasons than aesthetics and symmetry, it seems reasonable to assume that the universe is symmetric about the speed of light--half of the total number of non-massless particles are >c (anti-particles). The Reciprocal System concludes this. The >c particles gravitate in time instead of space, so appear isotropic and uniformly distributed to us, and make their appearance only as cosmic rays, and then only when slowed down from >c to exactly c, usually as a result of a of a >c star going supernova. -- Hoyt A. Stearns jr.|hoyt@ | International Society of Unified Science| 4131 E. Cannon Dr. |isus.tnet.com | Advancing Dewey B. Larson's Reciprocal | Phoenix, AZ. 85028 |ncar!enuucp! | System- a unified physical theory. | voice_602_996_1717 telesys!isus!hoyt The Universe in two postulates!_________| Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!suite!suite.com!Mark-Tarbell From: Mark-Tarbell@suite.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Orgone Energy Message-ID: <345@suite.uunet.uu.net> Date: 30 Jul 92 01:16:12 GMT Sender: usenet@suite.uunet.uu.net Reply-To: Mark-Tarbell@suite.com Lines: 11 Nntp-Posting-Host: gilgamesh My Digital Webster dictionary defines "orgone energy" as: or gone \'o (e)r-,go n\ n [prob. fr. orgasm + -one (as in hormone)] (1942) :a vital energy held to pervade nature and to be made available for use by the human body by sitting in a specially designed box Okay, I give. What's the story here? (...and where can I get one of them BOXES!!!) Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11039 alt.alien.visitors:7697 sci.skeptic:28069 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Get Off John's Back Please! Message-ID: <63079@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 19:04:05 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul29.185219.29352@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> <45868@shamash.cdc.com> Lines: 10 Dear Denice: Thanks for taking up for me. I need all the help I can get. Two days ago I got some E=mail from a person who said that he was having a hard time paying his long distance bill for his posting. I replied to him then erased his message. I've been thinking about it and would appreciate it if he would E=mail me again and maybe something could be worked out. I've even had the space people do me a favor before and without me begging too hard they did something to where my long distance calls didn't come out on my bill. I don't know how they did it but it was appreciated. Thanks again Denice. John Winston. Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11040 alt.alien.visitors:7698 sci.skeptic:28070 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: John's Astral Convoy (Was: Re: The Prime Directive) Message-ID: <63081@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jul 92 19:19:07 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <62554@cup.portal.com> <62609@cup.portal.com> <62695@cup.portal.com> <62709@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul27.204837.20643@acuson.com> <62986@cup.portal.com> <63053@cup.portal.com> Lines: 10 Dear Clock Watchers: The take off time for the Astral Convoy will be 1100 PM Milpitas, Calif. daylight savings time. I feel pretty good physically for the shape I'm in but Astrally and Spiritally I feel that I cans leap tall buildings with a single bound. Loosen up everybody. Try not to be so serious. The more serious you are the more it is going to hold you back. I'll throw in a little extra tonight (wednesday), I'll ask the space people to appear to anyone that would like to see them. They don't have to do it but it would be an added thing. John Winston Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11041 alt.alien.visitors:7699 sci.skeptic:28072 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!uunet!mcsun!sun4nl!utrcu1!infnews!heksterb From: heksterb@cs.utwente.nl (Ben Hekster) Subject: Re: Get Off John's Back Please! Message-ID: <1992Jul30.024216.14152@cs.utwente.nl> Followup-To: sci.skeptic Summary: Oh please don't talk about "freedom of speech" Sender: usenet@cs.utwente.nl Nntp-Posting-Host: utis96 Organization: University of Twente, Dept. of Computer Science References: Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 02:42:16 GMT Lines: 28 In article dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) writes: > Come on guys! Give the guy a break. I know John and he's a really > nice man. If you don'l like his posts then skip them. But geeze > why so hostile? Freedom of speech is for everyone not just the > people you agree with! No-one is questioning his "freedom of speech". I wish people would stop saying this every time someone tries to infuse a little sanity into a discussion. And remember that it works both ways. Just as Mr. Winston has the `right' to post his astral journal to the net others have the `right' to respond. And you have the right to respond to the respondents, and I have the right..., &c &c ad infinitum. It is a non-issue. Nor would I describe the reactions he has been getting here as particularly "hostile". Although for the life of me I can't imagine what kind of reaction he would have expected from a newsgroup called "sci.skeptic" (note the "sci"). I'm sure John is a nice guy, too. Honest. That's probably the reason why he has been treated rather more charitably and humorously than someone else posting 50+ messages of drivel (always IMO, of course) in the space of two weeks would otherwise have merited. (Any necessary follow-ups to sci.skeptic) -- Ben `Hackster' Hekster | "He bides his time and thinks, heksterb@cs.utwente.nl | 'There must be more to life than this!'" Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7700 sci.skeptic:28074 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: Re: Men In Black Message-ID: <3dpm03k.sheaffer@netcom.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 05:56:55 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <139331.2A707317@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Lines: 43 In article <139331.2A707317@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes: > (Sheaffer writes:) > > Yes, Barker was definitely "pulling peoples' chain" with just about > > everything he wrote. If anyone did anything the least bit strange, he > > would suggest "was X visited by (gasp!) the Three Men???????". > > > > James Moseley, one of the *least-silent* individuals in UFOlogy today, > > was claimed by Barker in "They Knew Too Much about Flying Saucers" to > > have > > been silenced by the MIB during the 1950s. Moseley obviously views the > > whole thing as a big joke. If you ask him about it, he just smiles > > and says, "I'm sorry, I'm not at liberty to discuss that!" > >What is your reading on John Keel, who also is a big proponent of the MIB >stuff? When I met John Keel, he was sitting at the lunch-counter of a hotel coffee shop, chatting amicably with Mr. Amazing Randi. The two are old friends from 'way back. I joined them, and got the distinct impression that all three of us agreed that UFOs are one big joke. If you find that hard to believe, read Keel's article "The Man Who Invented Flying Saucers" (The Story of Ray Palmer) in "The Fringes of Reason - A Whole Earth Catalog." There is *no* way an article like that could be written by anyone who took UFOs the least bit seriously. If there were no author's name given, you'd swear it had to be written by Menzel or Klass. When I met the late Gray Barker, he admitted quite directly that he didn't believe a word of the stuff he was writing. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet. Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or where it will end." - Emerson: Essay, "Circles" Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7701 sci.skeptic:28075 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: Re: Zeta Reticuli Incident Message-ID: <_fpmfsl.sheaffer@netcom.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 06:06:32 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <62578@cup.portal.com> Lines: 48 In article <62578@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: > >However, I did find the following (obviously mis-filed :-) > > "The Zeta Reticuli Incident" > by Terence Dickinson > > With related commentary by: > > Jeffrey L. Kretsch > Carl Sagan > Steven Soter > Robert Scheaffer > Marjorie Fish > David Saunders, and > Michael Peck > >which is a 32-page, nicely printed (in color) reprint from ASTRONOMY Magazine. > >From the frontispiece: > > The Zeta Reticuli Incident by Terrence Dickinson, et al. > > Copyright (C) 1976 by AstroMedia Corp., publisher of ASTRONOMY > magazine, 757 N. Broadway, Suite 204, Milwaukee WI 53202, all rights > >Many arguments, rebuttals, counter-arguments/-rebuttals are in the reprint. > >Perhaps someone should determine whether copies are still available. The last time I saw Stanton Friedman's travelling road show, he was still peddling copies of this booklet. Probably copies are available from him. (And please note that my name is spelled wrong in it!!) -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet. Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or where it will end." - Emerson: Essay, "Circles" Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Alien Film Message-ID: <35875.2119224679@kcbbs.gen.nz> From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Date: 30 Jul 92 09:57:55 GMT Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 12 A couple of weeks ago here in Auckland NZ they had a film festival & 1 of the films was a 50 minute USA film entitled something like TRIBULATION 99 ALIEN ......UNDER AMERICA- Has anyone seen this or even has any more info on it?.How about a review/ critique etc?. ************************************************* ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL? ************************************************ Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11043 alt.alien.visitors:7703 sci.skeptic:28079 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!hydra!klaava!cust_ts From: cust_ts@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Tero Sand) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: John's Astral Convoy (Was: Re: The Prime Directive) Message-ID: <1992Jul30.094008.7946@klaava.Helsinki.FI> Date: 30 Jul 92 09:40:08 GMT References: <63053@cup.portal.com> Organization: University of Helsinki Lines: 20 In article <63081@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Clock Watchers: >The take off time for the Astral Convoy will be 1100 PM Milpitas, Calif. >daylight savings time. I feel pretty good physically for the shape I'm in >but Astrally and Spiritally I feel that I cans leap tall buildings with >a single bound. Loosen up everybody. Try not to be so serious. The >more serious you are the more it is going to hold you back. I'll throw >in a little extra tonight (wednesday), I'll ask the space people to appear >to anyone that would like to see them. They don't have to do it but it >would be an added thing. >John Winston Frankly, this is not an article, this is an ad, an invitation to a religious meeting (of sorts). I don't see it belonging to sci.skeptic any more than, say, comp.sys.mac. -- -Tero Sand EMail: cust_ts@cc.helsinki.fi Snail mail: Auroran Sairaala os. 6-1 (if that doesn't work, try Nordenskioldinkatu 20 cust_ts@kruuna.helsinki.fi) 00250 Helsinki 25, Finland Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11045 alt.alien.visitors:7704 sci.skeptic:28084 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: John's Astral Convoy (Was: Re: The Prime Directive) Message-ID: <63116@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 06:26:49 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63053@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul30.094008.7946@klaava.Helsinki.FI> Lines: 11 Dear Astral Trekies: Now before I read any of your mail or postings please let me inform you what happened last night on the second weekly Astral Convoy. I programmed myself to go see quite a few people, went to sleep and then my wife came in and touched me. I nearly jumped out of my skin and thought I saw something big looking at me through my open window (it was just cause by the way the wooden shutter was placed in a certain position). I then took off for all of USA then Europe then England. Then something happened that another person said had happen to him during this Astral Train, I started riding a horse. This morning I awoke seeming to be in a three layer deep conciousness. I had to wake up in three layers of conciousness, so that's it. John Winston Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!icdoc!syma!andrews From: andrews@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Andrew Shires) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: AARGGH! Message-ID: <1992Jul28.131439.1382@syma.sussex.ac.uk> Date: 28 Jul 92 13:14:39 GMT Sender: andrews@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Andrew Shires) Organization: University of Sussex, England Lines: 47 I returned to the computer lab this afternoon to find that I had left myself logged-on, and a certain someone had left me a mail message on my account to point this out -- From andrews@cogs.susx.ac.uk Tue Jul 28 12:57:30 1992 Received: from cste.ctn.cogs.susx.ac.uk by tsunb.ctn.cogs.susx.ac.uk; Tue, 28 Jul 92 12:57:26 +0100 Message-Id: <21973.9207281154@cste.ctn.cogs.susx.ac.uk> From: Andrew Shires Date: Tue, 28 Jul 92 12:54:54 +0100 To: andrews@cogs.susx.ac.uk Subject: still logged in you have left yourself logged in and open to infiltration be warned your little grey friend with big almond eyes ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ARGH! I always knew they'd get around to me soon . . . -- Andrew Shires, COGS, University of Sussex, Falmer, Brighton, ENGLAND email: andrews@uk.ac.sussex.cogs and andrews@uk.ac.sussex.syma Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!ibmchs!auschs!awdprime.austin.ibm.com!selket.austin.ibm.com!mike From: mike@selket.austin.ibm.com (Mike Austin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll Keywords: Get a clue numb----. Message-ID: <1992Jul29.185909.13625@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> Date: 29 Jul 92 18:59:09 GMT References: <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@awdprime.austin.ibm.com (USENET News) Reply-To: mike@selket.austin.ibm.com (Mike Austin) Organization: IBM Austin, TX Lines: 28 > Hello any & everybody, > > Mabye John will get the MESSAGE this way?!?! All those in favor of dear old > John_-_Winston sending e-mail instead of posting his responses to the world > at large , please post a RE: to this message to let the post happy > bandwidth burner > know we are all growing weary of his blatent disregard for information > dissemination in an organized & efficient manner.The next step of course > would be to contact the NETWORK POLICE to give him a keyboard enema. > To hell with a poll, sic the network police on him now! John_-_Winston, STOP posting this personal crap. We are sick of it! You are ruining an otherwise entertaining newsgroup. If you haven't already, read the various postings about using the net found in news.admin or news.announce.newusers. If you don't start paying attention and become a more friendly USENET user, you are inviting the wrath of many other users. From your postings I gather that you may have an understanding of the concept of karma. You are building up a rather hefty negative weight on your karma scale. I repeat, knock this crap off! Now! _____________________________________________________________ Mike Austin (contractor) | There is no greater urge than IBM Austin, PSPA (AIX IDD) | to change someone else's copy. (512) 838-7944 | Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!nigel.msen.com!fmsrl7!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: UFO books Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 15:22:49 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <1992Jul23.193217.510@news.Hawaii.Edu> <62922@cup.portal.com> Lines: 34 In article <62922@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Elaine: You ask about UFO book so here I go. >I'll try to give you my opinion on the subject. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What gives John, you don't know your own opinion? I owuld think that the negative of the statement would cause more difficulty for most people. >The first book is Stranger At The >Pentagon by Frank Stranges. Fate Magazine just got through writing >an article tearing this book apart. I figure if Fate has that much to >say about it then it's got to be good. I read it many years ago and it >talks about a person from Venus called Valient Thor who contacted Ike I. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Pretty tough dude to be able to live on a planet where the surface temperature is hot enougth to melt lead, tin and other soft metals. Not to mention the fact that the atmosphere is corrisive. >(our president) and tried to give us some help. We didn't take his >help but he did give us 2 or more UFOs to show good faith. You can get >the book at Inner Light Publications, P.O. Box 753, New Prunswick, >NJ 08903 USA. Ithlial the Archer My opinions, mine, mine, mine! I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go, "What, was THAT?!" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!destroyer!fmsrl7!lynx!apsicc.aps.edu!jim From: jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...) Subject: Re: Why America ? Message-ID: <30JUL199210423795@apsicc.aps.edu> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 17:42:00 GMT Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center References: <1992Jul23.140405.2340@csc.ti.com> <1992Jul24.031658.10283@news.unomaha.edu> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Lines: 68 In article <1992Jul24.031658.10283@news.unomaha.edu>, jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) writes... >alanj@dadd.ti.com writes: >> In article 114610@axion.bt.co.uk, achaplin@axion.bt.co.uk (Anthony Chaplin) writes: >> > >> >I have a question for all you Phoenix Project fans out there >> > >> > Why America, why not the old Soviet Union ? >> > >> >Think about it logically, >> > >> > 1. Russia has vast tracks of barren, unpopulated lands. Compared to Russia the remote places in America really aren't that remote. >> > >> > 2. Russia's air traffic control and radar network is much less comphensive than the USA's, therefore the aliens could come and go more easily.. >> > >> > 3. Russia, during the cold war was far behind the technology of the west and so would be willing to pay a higher price for alien technology ? >> > >> > 4. People could be silenced much more easily in the old Soviet Union than they could in the USA (except if your name was Silkwood !) >> > >> >Therefore if these supposed aliens had observed the earth they would have found the Old Soviet Union a much more inviting place to build K-2 ?? >> > >> >But let me guess they do use the Soviet Union for bases, and someone somewhere (who also forgot his camera) has seen it ! >> > >> >Don't get me wrong I don't have a closed mind to aliens (otherwise I wouldn't subscript to this newsgroup) but massive alien bases in the USA ? >> > >> >Cheers >> > >> >Tony >> >achaplin@axion.bt.co.uk >> >> Good point. In fact, why not Antartica, northern Canada, or the middle of an >> ocean? The only reasons I can think of would be: >> >> a. They are working with Americans which require access to the base. >> b. Their work is in that area (outside the base, assuming they must leave >> the base to accomplish some part of their work), and fuel requirements for >> transits to/from the more remote locations is prohibitive. >> c. Their work is in that area, and transits to/from more remote locations >> would increase the probability of detection. >> >> It really comes down to this - why do they have a base on Earth at all? >> >> Of course, the possible existence of an alien base in the U.S. does not preclude >> the possibility of bases existing in these other, more remote, places either. >> >> --- >> sincerely, >> Alan Jones / Texas Instruments, Dallas, TX / email=alanj@dadd.ti.com >> >Why not use the moon as a base? (of course maybe they are). The close >proximity to Earth and the seclusion would make it ideal! > > Joseph A. Citro III > The moon would be the most ideal candidate for earth observation, even if only of an anthropological nature to watch a species evolve. For any race that was capable of crossing between stars a short hop from the moon to the earth and back when necessary would be a minor thing. Remember the days about thirty years ago when lights were reported seen moving along crater walls, one of the most notable events occured in Plato. There was also the reputed bridgelike structure seen and a photograph of the shadow it cast was even published in an issue of Sky and Telescope of the period I believe. ====================================================================== We are rapidly ascending through prosperity to poverty... Twain Internet: jim@apsicc.aps.edu Albuquerque Public Schools - Instructional System Manager ====================================================================== Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.bizarre:68169 alt.alien.visitors:7709 Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sybus.sybus.com!myrddin!tct!chip From: chip@tct.com (Chip Salzenberg) Subject: Re: Ley Linesj Message-ID: <2A780285.603A@tct.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 14:53:57 GMT References: <62611@cup.portal.com> <62936@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul29.152702.7897@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Organization: TC Telemanagement, Clearwater, FL Lines: 12 According to reese@vax.oxford.ac.uk: >In article <62936@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >> --the Goddess and other planets and other constellations that she speaks >> to, so when you are looking at these two barbells which are symbolical... > >Anyone know what all this rubbish is about? Better living through chemistry. -- Chip Salzenberg at Teltronics/TCT , <73717.366@compuserve.com> "Do Rush place weird subliminal backmasked messages in their songs to compel unwilling geeks to commit evil .sig atrocities?" -- Dean Engelhardt Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!ceblair From: ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) Subject: Alien endorses Clinton! Message-ID: Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:05:37 GMT Lines: 1 No kidding! Check the tabloid counter at your supermarket. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7711 sci.skeptic:28102 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: Men In Black Message-ID: <1992Jul30.170555.14030@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <139331.2A707317@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <3dpm03k.sheaffer@netcom.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 17:05:55 GMT Lines: 71 In article <3dpm03k.sheaffer@netcom.com> sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: >In article <139331.2A707317@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes: >> (Sheaffer writes:) >> > Yes, Barker was definitely "pulling peoples' chain" with just about >> > everything he wrote. If anyone did anything the least bit strange, he >> > would suggest "was X visited by (gasp!) the Three Men???????". >> > >> > James Moseley, one of the *least-silent* individuals in UFOlogy today, >> > was claimed by Barker in "They Knew Too Much about Flying Saucers" to >> > have >> > been silenced by the MIB during the 1950s. Moseley obviously views the >> > whole thing as a big joke. If you ask him about it, he just smiles >> > and says, "I'm sorry, I'm not at liberty to discuss that!" >> >>What is your reading on John Keel, who also is a big proponent of the MIB >>stuff? > >When I met John Keel, he was sitting at the lunch-counter of a hotel >coffee shop, chatting amicably with Mr. Amazing Randi. The two are old >friends from 'way back. I joined them, and got the distinct impression >that all three of us agreed that UFOs are one big joke. > >If you find that hard to believe, read Keel's article "The Man Who Invented >Flying Saucers" (The Story of Ray Palmer) in "The Fringes of Reason - A >Whole Earth Catalog." There is *no* way an article like that could be >written by anyone who took UFOs the least bit seriously. If there were >no author's name given, you'd swear it had to be written by Menzel or >Klass. > >When I met the late Gray Barker, he admitted quite directly that >he didn't believe a word of the stuff he was writing. > > >-- > > Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com > > Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! > > "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet. > Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has > broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or > where it will end." > - Emerson: Essay, "Circles" So, Mr. Skeptic, what is your explanation for the supposed "abductees" regression statements that so many "UFO" writers are standing by? I was just complaining to a co-worker this morning that is about half way through Budd Hopkins' book "Intruders", as I am, that there is no middle ground in this subject called UFO/UFO abductions/Alien Visitors. Scientific men completely deny any existence but so many people swear its happen(ing)(ed). I am on the virge of falling one way or the other. I have always been intensly interested in the possiblities but always viewed it as somewhat of a warped kind of Sci-Fi entertainment. In the last six months I have come to realize that there are people that claim this is happening...FOR REAL! I am examining evidence to convince myself one way or the other. I support the fact that there are a lot of hoaxers and people who do it for the money/popularity/etc. However, it seems it would be hard to pull the wool over my eyes that much. I see a lot of pictures (which can be faked), I read regression transcripts (which can be ficticious). I tend to agree with Budd in that people refuse to believe it because of the negative, "our little bubble" type philosophy. The fact is its hard to see the ground when you are wading in BULLSHIT up to your neck! I mean both kinds: Yeah and Nay. By golly, something is going on. Not sure what but I definately will be finding out. Gregg. gvb@acd4.acd.com Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!demon!cix.compulink.co.uk!bernieb Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors From: bernieb@cix.compulink.co.uk (Steve Browne) Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll Cc: bernieb@cix.compulink.co.uk Reply-To: bernieb@cix.compulink.co.uk Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 18:55:12 +0000 Message-ID: Sender: usenet@gate.demon.co.uk Lines: 15 >To hell with a poll, sic the network police on him now! > >John_-_Winston, STOP posting this personal crap. We are sick of it! Hear Hear! Some of us actually have to pay for our usenet access, and then have to pay to download it - 75% of which is absolutely of no interest to me, coz John's mailing publicly. I'm not happy :( ----------------------------- bernieb@cix.compulink.co.uk sbrowne@mcimail.com Steve Browne @ Notes Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM!lpb From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: ET Info Request Message-ID: <9207302108.AA11529@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> Date: 30 Jul 92 21:08:11 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Lines: 10 My connection to the Usenet is shut down as usual. This is here via Email. If there are any articles here regarding Plieadians, Hatton, or Ashtar or Greys etc ... would someone be so kind to Email them to me?????? Big Thanks, len lpb@stratus.swdc.stratus.com Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7714 sci.skeptic:28108 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!m.cs.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!mcgrath From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) Subject: Re: Men In Black Message-ID: <1992Jul30.210235.29204@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Sender: news@m.cs.uiuc.edu (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager)) Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science References: <139331.2A707317@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <3dpm03k.sheaffer@netcom.com> <1992Jul30.170555.14030@acd4.acd.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1992 21:02:35 GMT Lines: 35 In article <1992Jul30.170555.14030@acd4.acd.com>, gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes in part: |> |> So, Mr. Skeptic, what is your explanation for the supposed "abductees" |> regression statements that so many "UFO" writers are standing by? Ahem. Testimony from hypnotic regression is VERY shaky. Good hypnotists are very, very careful because it is so easy for the hypnotist to create false memories by suggestion, even unintentionally. From what I have read of old Budd's technique, he is terribly incompetant and seems to be totally unaware of this issue. My observation is that he is spreading his own beliefs by hypnotic suggestion. In other words, the explanation is simple--a charlatan is promulgating his own twisted fantasies through abuse of hypnotism. This would be almost funny if he weren't doing such damage to his victims. Whatever problems these people may or may not have had (and some of them definitely had problems before Budd got them), they now have a firmly entrenched belief that they have been raped by aliens. In most cases, this belief is incorrect, but the psychological effect is likely to be horrible. Budd and the other "abductionophiles" have a lot to answer for. |> By golly, something is going on. Not sure what |> but I definately will be finding out. You bet something is going on, and it is a scandal. As you investigate this, please learn something about hypnosis and hypnotic suggestion. Try to keep a little perspective--Budd Hopkins is not necessarily a reliable source. -- Robert E. McGrath Urbana Illinois mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!mips!sdd.hp.com!caen!batcomputer!munnari.oz.au!deakin.OZ.AU!fulcrum.oz.au!steve From: steve@fulcrum.oz.au (Steve Taylor) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Kevin Fisher Message-ID: <1992Jul30.011116.25090@fulcrum.oz.au> Date: 30 Jul 92 01:11:16 GMT Organization: The Fulcrum Consulting Group Lines: 5 Kevin - your mail to John Winston ended up in my mailbox. I tried to email you back, but it bounced. Steve Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!mips!mips!rtech!ingres!kevinq From: kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien endorses Clinton! Message-ID: <1992Jul30.225346.12794@pony.Ingres.COM> Date: 30 Jul 92 22:53:46 GMT References: Reply-To: kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn) Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501 Lines: 13 In article ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes: > No kidding! Check the tabloid counter at your supermarket. Damn alien! He was buddy-buddy with my pal Ross just a couple weeks ago... kbq -- Kevin Quinn | kevinq@ingres.com | {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com My opinions are my own. Should you think otherwise, think again. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7717 sci.skeptic:28120 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Abductions (was: Men In Black) Message-ID: Date: 30 Jul 92 23:33:24 GMT References: <139331.2A707317@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <3dpm03k.sheaffer@netcom.com> <1992Jul30.170555.14030@acd4.acd.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 25 In article <1992Jul30.170555.14030@acd4.acd.com> gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes: > >So, Mr. Skeptic, what is your explanation for the supposed "abductees" >regression statements that so many "UFO" writers are standing by? I was >just complaining to a co-worker this morning that is about half way through >Budd Hopkins' book "Intruders", as I am, that there is no middle ground in this >subject called UFO/UFO abductions/Alien Visitors. Scientific men completely >deny any existence but so many people swear its happen(ing)(ed). I am on the No doubt these people do indeed *claim* such experiences. But just because somebody *claims* something happened doesn't mean that it did, and sincerity is irrelevant to whether the claim is true or not; all it means is that the person *believes* it's true. And anybody can hallucinate. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet. Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or where it will end." - Emerson: Essay, "Circles" Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien endorses Clinton! Message-ID: Date: 30 Jul 92 23:56:26 GMT References: Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 20 In article ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes: > No kidding! Check the tabloid counter at your supermarket. I guess now that Perot has dropped out the greys have to endorse Clinton!?!? The question is what do they have against Bush/Quayle? Ithlial **************************************************************************** * *Have you ever seen a corpse at a plane crash? Most aren't in one piece. *Many times they've burned to death. Have you ever seen a corpse of *someone who's burned to death? It's about the most agonizing way *to die - many have have their mouths wide open, since they were screaming *in agony as they died. * *a quotation from: Jim Harvey * harvey@iupui.edu * **************************************************************************** Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7719 sci.skeptic:28124 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Men In Black Message-ID: Date: 31 Jul 92 01:07:43 GMT References: <139331.2A707317@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <3dpm03k.sheaffer@netcom.com> <1992Jul30.170555.14030@acd4.acd.com> <1992Jul30.210235.29204@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 43 mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes Ahem. Testimony from hypnotic regression is VERY shaky. Good hypnotists are very, very careful because it is so easy for the hypnotist to create false memories by suggestion, even unintentionally....In other words, the explanation is simple--a charlatan is promulgating his own twisted fantasies through abuse of hypnotism. .... In general I agree with your comments about hypnosis (but am not quite willing to completely go along with your condemnation of Mr. Hopkins.) A number of abductees' memories have not been hypnosis-enhanced, and Budd doesn't hypnotise-interview all there are (he's the best known, is all.) The phenomenon (regardless of source) is very complex. Jacques Vallee had a bit on this subject in his recent book "Confrontations" (in a section appropriately titles "The Abduction Quagmire"). I recommend the book. Here's a semi-summary: * Don't hypnotise people yourself, unless you are a qualified, professional hypnotherapist. * Just because a non-professional has performed (even many) hypnosis sessions before, is no guarantee that what information is gained has any value (or truth) at all. * There is (as Robert said) a real danger that a hypnotherapist may "pull" false memories from a subject with leading questions, and even plant such memories and screw the subject up in this way. If you really want to use hypnosis, use a properly-checked-out professional (often a psychologist), and use one who does NOT have a pro-UFO or anti-UFO bias. Let the hypnotist frame the questions, and control the situation. * Hypnosis should be a last resort; often it is not required. Once a subject has been interrogated through hypnosis (especially an amateur), then any further, non-hyposis rememberances will be suspect. .... playing with people's heads is dangerous stuff. Be careful. Charles Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: Re: Is Bigfoot a Visitor? Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Jul 92 23:57:29 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Jul23.134824.3067@desire.wright.edu> <1992Jul23.233900.28968@odin.corp.sgi.com> Lines: 51 In article <1992Jul23.233900.28968@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: > >What happened next was one of a few strange things that has happened to me >in my life.I'm not sure exactly what time it was but it was pre-sunrise(you >know when the sun has not come up over the horizen but the light begins to >dominate over the darkness.Well like I said , I never wake up but that >morning I woke out of a dead sleep & sat strait UP! Looked out of the >screen door to see to my amazement >7-10' creature standing about 5-6' away......staring at me.I could not >really see its eyes but it was apparently facing my direction. I then >rubbed my eyes violently & took a second look.....HOLY SHIT this thing is >still standing there motionless.Boy the butterflies in my stomach felt like >bats racing through my innards,man was I scared.I could see the outline of >hair all over its body,(like Chewbacca from Star Wars)except for its legs. >The legs were covered with >scales/plates or body armor type stuff,it was not light enough to get a >real >good look at it..too strange. I then after about what seemed like forever >(probably more like 30 seconds) I turned to my X and tried to wake her up >to see this thing. She would not wake up & I shook her pretty good. Finally >she came around but she was really groggy. I then turned back around to >show her this thing but it was G-O-N-E. No sound of footsteps or >anything....just gone. My X was not to happy that I woke her up & went back >to sleep. I ,on the other had was pretty shook up. I didn't like the idea >that a BIG critter could just materialize in our campsite & then just >vanish. I never got the feeling it was trying to communicate with me or >anything like that. I did not get up to go & check it out,,which was >strange cause normally I am a curious person.I finally made it back to >sleep.What a night!! A classic description of a hypnogogic (or is is hypnopompic?) vision, a hallucination that occurs at the boundary between sleep and wakefulness. Sometimes the visions of the dream state and the background of the wakeful state become superimposed, for just a few seconds. Relax, you're perfectly normal - plenty of people have had experiences like this. I think that a lot of the "night abductors" are visions of this same sort. The mind provides the scary image, prompting the viewer to contact Budd Hopkins, and he "leads" them to fill in the rest. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet. Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or where it will end." - Emerson: Essay, "Circles" Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!mips!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv2.uwaterloo.ca!watserv1!mach4!kfisher3 From: kfisher3@mach4.wlu.ca (kevin fisher U) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Moon activities? Summary: wierd scenes inside the gold mine Keywords: moon, wierd Message-ID: <1992Jul31.015626.26978@mach4.wlu.ca> Date: 31 Jul 92 01:56:26 GMT Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University Lines: 20 Someone posted earlier about lights on the moon and a bridge thing happening about 30 years ago. Even though this is about 10 years before my time, I still read about it. I also heard, about little 'domes' appearing upon the moon's face around Plato, around this time. Does anyone have any further info, ie. was any reason found for these sightings? I also read that somewhere back in the telescope age several witnesses worldwide confirmed the presence of a strange flying 'M' over the surface of Mars, stationary, for several days (weeks?). Anyone know anything? Of course, these are the people who also saw 'canals' on Mars too.. T-T, -kev -- Kevin Fisher ><> UUCP:kfisher3@mach4.wlu.ca Tiger-Tiger! Physics & Computing '92 at WLU - - "I can't handle it!" We're gonna have a ball tonight, Down at the Globe.." - - BAD II Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!jcitro3 From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) Subject: Re: Roswell Museum (UFO Engima) Message-ID: <1992Jul31.023817.9127@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha References: <1992Jul23.110345.41842@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 02:38:17 GMT Lines: 7 Wes, Thanks for the info on the Roswell museum. I'll check it out next year on my way to L.A. Joseph A. Citro III Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7723 alt.conspiracy:17221 alt.activism:30179 sci.skeptic:28132 misc.headlines:23000 alt.politics.bush:1041 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 01:15:41 GMT Message-ID: <1992Jul31.011541.6582@bilver.uucp> Lines: 284 This was sent to me by a friend who typed it up from a bulletin sent out from the C.A.C. (Cosmic Awareness) group, out in Washington State. I'm posting it as-is and am asking anyone who reads it to please take it with a BIG grain of salt. This info has NOT been verified. Anyone who can verify or refute it, please have at it. This will be posted to all the UFO conferences. - Don ------------------------------------------------------------------- ATTENTION: CIVIL WAR IS ABOUT TO BEGIN IN THE UNITED STATES! YOU AND YOUR LOVED ONES ARE IN ACUTE DANGER! RACE RIOTS AND SLAUGHTER OF AMERICANS WILL BE THE FIRST SIGN! THIS IS NO JOKE! On July 4, 1992, at a UFO convention in Arca- dia, CA, Mr. Michael Younger, a member of the super-secret COM-12 group and a scientist who worked at Groom Lake, Area 51 in Nevada, stunned the audience of over 200 people with the following incredible information, which, if true, endangers the lives and freedoms of every American. Here is the amazing sce- nario of the planned events: Beginning in August of this year, 1992, a conspiracy long at work behind the scenes of our government, will make its first overt move. These conspirators plan to create a dictatorship in the United States, suspend our Constitution and attempt to confiscate all guns and firearms in American homes. Stage 1 being to create "race riots" in major U.S. cities such as New York, Chicago, Detroit, etc.; these to begin in August. This will be preceded by a month of subliminal programming via TV and other media to condition the people for civil war in the United States. The accent will be on rap records such as "Body Count" released by Time-Warner (a Rockefeller corporation) by musicians "Ice Tea" and "Sister Solj" whose lyrics in such songs as "Cop Killers" are designed to inflame and polarize its listeners. These rap songs contain such lines as "kill white policemen," "kill the pigs", "kill whitey", and "Why not kill whitey, if he can kill us?" etc. In August Stage 2, code-named "Operation Hot August Nights" will take effect. Special agents of the conspiracy, masquerading as police, will open fire on minorities, namely Black Americans and Hispanics and orientals. Other agents will set off incendiary bombs as they did recently in the Los Angeles riots, which essen- tially was a "test case" that surpassed the expectations of the conspirators. These special agents, masquerading as police, massacre these Blacks and minorities and fire at the real police- men. This brings in more police and the riots escalate. "Skin heads" and other gangs, already fully armed, join in the fray. The real police, vastly outnumbered, cannot handle the rioting. The National Guard is called in and fired upon by these special agents masquerading as gang members, who also enlist other gang members to fight the police and national guardsmen. These riots continue through August, with many minority Americans slaughtered in major cities. State 3: In September, President Bush calls in United Nations troops to quash the riots and restore law and order. American troops had indicated they did not wish to fight against American civilians. Bush executes Executive Orders, already in effect, which now give the UN forces complete rights and freedom to enter American homes, to confiscate all devices that are capable of communicating information, which includes video cameras, VCRs, computers, mimeographs, anything that can print, copy machines, etc. These troops are furnished certain lists of names, particu- larly those know as "Patriots" and these patriots and their families are rounded up first, and if not executed on the spot, are sent to any of the 13 concentration camps now fully activated in the United States. There is nobody left to tell what really happened. Curious neighbors will be told it was a justified "drug raid." Those who escape to the hills and mountains are hunted down by 'search and destroy' troops, specially trained for mountain warfare. During September all borders will be closed down, as well as airports. No one is allowed to leave the United States. Stage 4: In October an "official" announcement will be carried live on TV, that extraterrestrial aliens, probably Zeta Reticuli 'Greys' have invaded the Earth, with some actual aliens introduced on the show. (This is actually a fake invasion). The aliens have been on Earth for many years, made treaties and agreements with our governments; there are millions of them in secret underground complexes such as Dulce, New Mexico, which are responsible for the abduction of American children and citizens and the cattle mutilations documented in books and on TV, such as the recent special "Intruders". This announcement will cause the entire world to mobilize under UN supervision to fight the 'inva- ders'. During November the chaos continues and more UN troops pour into the United States, mostly mercenaries who have fought in African nations and other 'hot spots' previously. (The butchery of these troops is well documented). Stage 5: In December a well-planned "crash" of the stock market will occur, a dramatic drop to at least 1500 on the DJ Industrial Average. This event planned to further weaken, panic and confuse the population. Stage 6: In February or March, 1993, President Bush will be assassinated by the conspirators and Vice President Dan Quayle will become President of the United States (this an option if Bush moves too slowly). The Constitution of the United States is suspended and the people are now living under martial law in a totally fascist state. Who are these conspirators? According to Mike Younger, at the end of World War II, Nelson Rockefeller brought 3000 high Nazi party officials from Germany illegally into the U.S., without permission. As of today it is believed there are now 1.6 million Nazis in the U.S., many high in government and major corpora- tions, such as Atlantic Richfield in New Jersey. Incredibly, these Nazi fascists are attempting to set up a "4th Reich" to continue the thousand-year plan of Adolph Hitler, with eventual intent to eliminate "non Aryan" people such as Jews, Blacks and other 'dissidents'. In January, 2000, when the "real" alien invasion occurs, the planet will be officially turned over to the alien invaders, the Nazi rulers expecting to get 25% of the Earth for themselves. The writers of this document did not originate the above material, but are simply passing this information along to you to do with what you feel is necessary. We have no way of knowing that these things will happen (we hope and pray they do not), but if any of the above should occur, you can rest assured the bal- ance of this evil scenario will follow. Their two main immediate goals are to disarm American citizens and suspend our Constitu- tion. URGENT: MAKE 30 COPIES AND MAIL TO MEDIA, POLITICIANS, CHURCHES, ORGANIZATIONS. POST ON BULLETIN BOARDS, PASS OUT TO CITIZENS IN THE STREETS! TIME IS RUNNING OUT! ACT NOW! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Don -- -* Don Allen *- // Only | Tavistock + Esalen = "New Age" Internet: dona@bilver.uucp \X/ Amiga | Rothschild + Rockefeller = FED UUCP: .uunet!peora!bilver!vicstoy!dona | UN + Maitreya = "Twilight Zone" "A democracy cannot be both ignorant and free" - Thomas Jefferson Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll Message-ID: <32461.2129210147@kcbbs.gen.nz> From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Date: 31 Jul 92 09:01:01 GMT References: <1992Jul29.032915.21819@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 8 Is this alt.John.visitors? ********************************** ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL? ********************************** Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Spaceships Beyond Our Ken(was Re:Ela Message-ID: <34096.2129210247@kcbbs.gen.nz> From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Date: 31 Jul 92 09:28:16 GMT References: <63052@cup.portal.com> Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 25 thad@cup.portal.com(Thad .P Floryan) wed 29Jul92 05:34:10 types-- >Finally what evidence can be presented showing a planet named "tau >ceti" orbits Tau Ceti. Well tau ceti is smaller than Tau Ceti so can their be any doubt?. After all it's a small world after all. But semantically seriously though if Tau Ceti(maybe that should be something around it) is on the MOP list then NASA at least thinks their's at least 1 planet lurkuing around their(or else some transmitter from somewhere else) so it's maybe worth pointing HST over there if COSTAR is a goer. Despite no reported success from Project Ozma since it' may still be a popular choice. BTW-Does anyone know of a good source for keeping up with whats going on with the NASA SETI MOP?. All I see & hear is very vacous. Anyway maybe it was another pentagon. ****************************************** ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL? ****************************************************************************** Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Get Off John's Back Please! Message-ID: <35209.2129210296@kcbbs.gen.nz> From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Date: 31 Jul 92 09:46:49 GMT References: <1992Jul29.185219.29352@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 14 timpson.acetek.enet.dec.com 29/jul 1992 18///////;52/;19 types-- >It's not a matter of freedom of...... (censored) Maybe it'as a freedom of type (0s) & what about Freedom of it for Aliens? ************************************ ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL? **************************************************************************8 Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7727 alt.politics.kibo:26 alt.religion.kibology:3278 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.politics.kibo,alt.religion.kibology Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Alien endorses Clinton! Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.politics.kibo Organization: Between a rock and a type specimen sheet, Boston. References: Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 04:22:36 GMT Lines: 12 In article ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes: > No kidding! Check the tabloid counter at your supermarket. Big fat hairy deal! There's one candidate who is not only endorsed by strange beings from other dimensions, but he is one himself. Yes, America needs an enema, and Kibo is just the man to administer it! Vote for Kibo! Vote early, and vote often! Shirts, stickers, and buttons will be available Real Soon Now. -- K. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!bcstec!kuryakin From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll Keywords: Get a clue numb----. Message-ID: <3146@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Date: 30 Jul 92 23:58:22 GMT References: <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Jul29.185909.13625@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> Organization: Boeing Lines: 35 In article <1992Jul29.185909.13625@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> mike@selket.austin.ibm.com (Mike Austin) writes: > >To hell with a poll, sic the network police on him now! > ....stuff deleted > >I repeat, knock this crap off! Now! > >_____________________________________________________________ >Mike Austin (contractor) | There is no greater urge than >IBM Austin, PSPA (AIX IDD) | to change someone else's copy. >(512) 838-7944 | Fanning the flames only make them worse. Besides, is this the attitude you want people on the net to see? Is this how IBM approaches a problem? Even if he were a complete moron, the only way you'll change anything is to explain to him what the problem is and how to change it. Yelling at him, electronically or otherwise, isn't going to convince him to fix the problem. Speaking of Ley Lines... what was the name of the paperbook published back in the 70's? I don't have a copy anymore and I'd like to find one in reasonable shape. It would help to find the name and the author. Also, If anyone in GB has a copy of that article on the Aurora that was published a few days ago, I sure would like a copy. Rick -- Rick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its program. kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com | AppleLink: kuryakin | It wastes your time pavrjg00%ccmail@ada3.ca.boeing.com | and annoys the droid. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7729 alt.conspiracy:17226 alt.activism:30185 sci.skeptic:28135 misc.headlines:23004 alt.politics.bush:1046 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!phage!pjm From: pjm@cshl.org (Pat Monardo) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Jul31.050423.22855@cshl.org> Date: 31 Jul 92 05:04:23 GMT References: <1992Jul31.011541.6582@bilver.uucp> Sender: news@cshl.org (NO MAIL) Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory Lines: 9 In article <1992Jul31.011541.6582@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: >[bogus conspiracy, alien invasion story] this can't be serious because alt.religion.kibology wasn't included in the newsgroups where it would easily be shown to contradict sacred scripture. -- -- Pat Monardo -- pjm@cshl.org Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7730 alt.conspiracy:17227 alt.activism:30187 sci.skeptic:28138 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,mi Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!arsmith From: arsmith@nyx.cs.du.edu (Alan Smith) Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Jul31.063900.17426@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. References: <1992Jul31.011541.6582@bilver.uucp> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 06:39:00 GMT Lines: 10 It's a Joke. Ice T (That's his name, not "Ice Tea," That's something you drink) pulled "Cop Killer" out of sales. This wouldn't be consistant with the plan. Besides, I think everybody would be more than a little pissed if Bush brought foreign troops onto american soil to quell the american people. Like, "Time to start the Revolution," pissed. Big Al. Now, where did I put that bomb? Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a1593 From: Raymond_Shaw@mindlink.bc.ca (Raymond Shaw) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Orgone Energy Message-ID: <13905@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 31 Jul 92 07:47:24 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Distribution: world Lines: 43 > Mark-Tarbell@suite.com writes: > > Msg-ID: <345@suite.uunet.uu.net> > Posted: 30 Jul 92 01:16:12 GMT > > My Digital Webster dictionary defines "orgone energy" as: > > or gone \'o (e)r-,go n\ n > [prob. fr. orgasm + -one (as in hormone)] > (1942) > :a vital energy held to pervade nature and to be made available for use by > the human body by sitting in a specially designed box > > Okay, I give. What's the story here? > (...and where can I get one of them BOXES!!!) > Hello Mark, If you're really interested in this subject, I suggest you read some of Wilhelm Reich's books. Reich was responsible for the "theory" of orgone energy and the development of the "orgone accumulator" -- the "box" to which you refer. An interesting note to this subject is the fact that Reich was a contemporary of Freud, but branched out into his own line of investigation which led to his discovery of orgone energy. He developed a box which had the ability to "collect and trap" orgone energy. He found that when people were exposed to the energy, they experienced increased vitality. He subsquently began using it in his practice (he was a psychiatrist). He eventually ended up in the USA where he started to distribute various sizes of orgone accumulators until the FDA decided they contravened American law and Reich was then imprisoned where he died shortly thereafter. All the orgone accumlators in the USA were "rounded up" and destroyed, even though many people had experienced extraordinary cures to various diseases, including cancer. In his will, Reich left instructions that his writings be held back from the general public for 50 years. Reich died in 1957. Among his books in print, there is one which is a compilation of his various works (I found this one in my local library, sorry I can't remember the title) in which details are given on how to build your own orgone accumlator. Hope this helps. Raymond Shaw. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!tulane!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!john From: john@rtfm.mlb.fl.us (John Blasik) Subject: Re: A question for John_-_Winston Message-ID: <1992Jul31.072901.16965@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> Organization: We don't need no stinkin' batches! References: <1992Jul16.152737.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> <62918@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 07:29:01 GMT Lines: 13 In article <62918@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Hassan B. Multu ... . . . >not too many years ago. I can say without a hesitation that I'm not >him. >John Winston. Yea, we know. Some people have actually gotten e-mail from multu. -- john Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7733 alt.conspiracy:17229 alt.activism:30198 sci.skeptic:28148 misc.headlines:23005 alt.politics.bush:1054 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Jul31.131231.17965@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Date: 31 Jul 92 13:12:31 GMT References: <1992Jul31.011541.6582@bilver.uucp> Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Reply-To: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 20 YYYYAAAAWWWWWNNNNN! Steve Food_for_the_Greys -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- | | | My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the | | universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own | | image to be servants of their human interests. | | | | -- George Santayana | | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Get Off John's Back Please! Message-ID: <63161@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 06:11:21 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul29.185219.29352@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> <35209.2129210296@kcbbs.gen.nz> Lines: 4 Dear Follow Earth Beings: I still have no time to post. I was taken on a tour of Channel 9 PBS TVs new facility last evening (in San Francisco). John Winston. Xref: news.uiowa.edu sci.skeptic:28156 alt.alien.visitors:7735 Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!m.cs.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!mcgrath From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) Subject: Re: Men In Black Message-ID: <1992Jul31.150340.23634@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Sender: news@m.cs.uiuc.edu (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager)) Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science References: <139331.2A707317@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <3dpm03k.sheaffer@netcom.com> <1992Jul30.170555.14030@acd4.acd.com> <1992Jul30.210235.29204@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:03:40 GMT Lines: 11 In article , mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) writes in part: |> ... playing with people's heads is dangerous stuff. Be careful. |> |> Charles I would amplify this: playing with people's heads is dangerous stuff. DON'T DO IT. -- Robert E. McGrath Urbana Illinois mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!mips!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: test Message-ID: <1992Jul31.153716.12662@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 31 Jul 92 15:37:16 GMT Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 8 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com test please ignore -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge  Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!mips!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Is Bigfoot a Visitor? Message-ID: <1992Jul31.154025.12809@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 31 Jul 92 15:40:25 GMT References: <1992Jul23.134824.3067@desire.wright.edu> <1992Jul23.233900.28968@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 86 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com > >What happened next was one of a few strange things that has happened to me >in my life.I'm not sure exactly what time it was but it was pre-sunrise(you >know when the sun has not come up over the horizen but the light begins to >dominate over the darkness.Well like I said , I never wake up but that >morning I woke out of a dead sleep & sat strait UP! Looked out of the >screen door to see to my amazement >7-10' creature standing about 5-6' away......staring at me.I could not >really see its eyes but it was apparently facing my direction. I then >rubbed my eyes violently & took a second look.....HOLY SHIT this thing is >still standing there motionless.Boy the butterflies in my stomach felt like >bats racing through my innards,man was I scared.I could see the outline of >hair all over its body,(like Chewbacca from Star Wars)except for its legs. >The legs were covered with >scales/plates or body armor type stuff,it was not light enough to get a >real >good look at it..too strange. I then after about what seemed like forever >(probably more like 30 seconds) I turned to my X and tried to wake her up >to see this thing. She would not wake up & I shook her pretty good. Finally >she came around but she was really groggy. I then turned back around to >show her this thing but it was G-O-N-E. No sound of footsteps or >anything....just gone. My X was not to happy that I woke her up & went back >to sleep. I ,on the other had was pretty shook up. I didn't like the idea >that a BIG critter could just materialize in our campsite & then just >vanish. I never got the feeling it was trying to communicate with me or >anything like that. I did not get up to go & check it out,,which was >strange cause normally I am a curious person.I finally made it back to >sleep.What a night!! >>A classic description of a hypnogogic (or is is hypnopompic?) vision, >>a hallucination that occurs at the boundary between sleep and wakefulness. >>Sometimes the visions of the dream state and the background of the >>wakeful state become superimposed, for just a few seconds. Relax, >>you're perfectly normal - plenty of people have had experiences like this. >>I think that a lot of the "night abductors" are visions of this same >>sort. The mind provides the scary image, prompting the viewer to contact >>Budd Hopkins, and he "leads" them to fill in the rest. -- >>Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Dear Mr. Closemindicus cause it has never happened to Himicus, You always seem to have a pat explanation for everything.You were not there,so I can't see how you can postulate such an irresponsible & ignorant speculation. I was fully awake genius. I can tell the difference between reality & a dream,although I don't think you will wake up from your personal nightmare! From the evidence I have seen sir,you are not a skeptic.......but a person who will deny anything that does not fit into the glass house you call reality.The day might come where a rock might be thrown in your general direction.....are you ready? As the glass shatters & crumbles around you, will you hold together or put a gun to your head? Only time will tell........... Like I have said to you before Robert....... "Feel not the comfort of your slumber,for when you awaken ,it may be too late" R.I.P. Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$  Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!walter!phelix!mdl From: mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch) Subject: Re: Is Bigfoot a Visitor? Message-ID: <1992Jul31.160956.25221@walter.bellcore.com> Sender: news@walter.bellcore.com Nntp-Posting-Host: phelix.bellcore.com Reply-To: mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch) Organization: Bellcore References: <1992Jul23.134824.3067@desire.wright.edu> <1992Jul23.233900.28968@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Jul31.154025.12809@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 92 16:09:56 GMT Lines: 75 In article <1992Jul31.154025.12809@odin.corp.sgi.com>, rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: |> > |> >What happened next was one of a few strange things that has happened to |> me |> >inmy life.I'm not sure exactly what time it was but it was |> pre-sunrise(you | >know when the sun has not come up over the horizen but the light begins |> to |> >dominate over the darkness.Well like I said , I never wake up but that |> >morning I woke out of a dead sleep & sat strait UP! Looked out of the |> >screen door to see to my amazement |> >7-10' creature standing ....................... |> |> >>A classic description of a hypnogogic (or is is hypnopompic?) vision, |> >>a hallucination that occurs at the boundary between sleep and |> wakeflness |> >>Sometimes the visions of the dream state and the background of the |> >>wakeful state become superimposed, for just a few seconds. Relax, |> >>you're perfectly normal - plenty of people have had experiences like |> this. |> |> >>I think that a lot of the "night abductors" are visions of this same |> >>sort. The mind provides the scary image, prompting the viewer to contact |> >>Budd Hopkins, and he "leads" them to fill in the rest. |> |> -- |> |> >>Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com |> |> |> Dear Mr. Closemindicus cause it has never happened to Himicus, |> |> You always seem to have a pat explanation for everything.You were not |> there,so I can't see how you can postulate such an irresponsible & ignorant |> speculation. I was fully awake genius. I can tell the difference between |> reality & a dream,although I don't think you will wake up from your |> personal nightmare! |> |> From the evidence I have seen sir,you are not a skeptic.......but a person |> who will deny anything that does not fit into the glass house you call |> reality.The day might come where a rock might be thrown in your general |> direction.....are you ready? As the glass shatters & crumbles around you, |> will you hold together or put a gun to your head? Only time will |> tell........... |> |> Like I have said to you before Robert....... |> |> "Feel not the comfort of your slumber,for when you awaken ,it may be too |> late" |> |> R.I.P. |> |> Rod |> |> -- |> Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |> Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, |> rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |> |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |> |> |> Robert Sheaffer's response was a calmly rational alternative explanation for that night's events. It's important that we keep open minds and remain receptive to all arguments, whether they agree with our stand or not. Rod Beckwith's attack on Robert, however, was as incoherent as it was hysterical. Rod, I suggest that you read the quote in your sig. Pay particular attention to the word "illusion." Mike Lynch Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!mips!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!boulder!ucsu!cubldr.colorado.edu!matthews_k From: matthews_k@cubldr.colorado.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien endorses Clinton! Message-ID: <1992Jul31.095018.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Date: 31 Jul 92 16:50:18 GMT References: Sender: news@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Lines: 23 Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu In article , cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes: > In article ceblair@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Charles Blair) writes: >> No kidding! Check the tabloid counter at your supermarket. > > I guess now that Perot has dropped out the greys have to endorse Clinton!?!? > The question is what do they have against Bush/Quayle? > > Ithlial > morbid stuff deleted... > *a quotation from: Jim Harvey > * harvey@iupui.edu I assume this is a rhetorical question.... :-) by the way, what on earth prompted you to post that nasty little quote in your sig file? If I want to read about people dying horrifically I'll read alt.slasher.kill.maim Kellie Matthews-Simmons internet matthews_k@cubldr.colorado.edu Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11057 alt.alien.visitors:7740 sci.skeptic:28165 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!hri.com!merrimack.edu!caina From: caina@merrimack.edu Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Get Off John's Back Please! Message-ID: <1992Jul31.131331.2050@merrimack.edu> Date: 31 Jul 92 13:13:31 GMT References: Organization: Merrimack College, No. Andover, MA, USA Lines: 38 In article , dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) writes: > In article hillman@carina.unm.edu (Dan Hillman) writes: >> >>Dear John, >> >>Your (sic) right; I fudge my Levis in glee every time I see one of >>you're (sic) posts. >> >>I am amazed that fully half of the traffic of this newsgroup is comprised >>of your three-line messages ("I'm having an astral wank, everybody!"), >>empty posts (" "), and one-screen text dumps. >> >>Call me a skeptic, but I would think an intelligent life form who >>wanted information distributed would get in touch with someone who had >>a clue. >> > > > Come on guys! Give the guy a break. I know John and he's a really > nice man. If you don'l like his posts then skip them. But geeze > why so hostile? Freedom of speech is for everyone not just the > people you agree with! > > Denise > > > > -- > ========================================================================= >>>>>>>>>>>>|| Copyright (c) Denise faith Solis 1992 ||<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>>|| dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com ||<<<<<<<<<<< > ========================================================================= Likewise, we have the freedom of speech to criticize whomever we want, whenever we want. Likewise, we have the right to say whatever we want. Just as you do. AC Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!gumby!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!sal.wisc.edu!rat!zeus!swoodwar From: swoodwar@zeus.calpoly.edu (Null Cypher) Subject: Re: Is Bigfoot a Visitor? Message-ID: <1992Jul31.154753.150646@zeus.calpoly.edu> Organization: Void-Tech Illumination Research, Inc. References: <1992Jul23.134824.3067@desire.wright.edu> <1992Jul23.233900.28968@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 15:47:53 GMT Lines: 24 sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) had the unmitigated audacity to say: >In article <1992Jul23.233900.28968@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: >> >> [story deleted] > >A classic description of a hypnogogic (or is is hypnopompic?) vision, >a hallucination that occurs at the boundary between sleep and wakefulness. >Sometimes the visions of the dream state and the background of the >wakeful state become superimposed, for just a few seconds. Relax, >you're perfectly normal - plenty of people have had experiences like this. > Of course - any data that does not conform to one's belief system is necessarily a hallucination (if not an outright lie). > >-- > > Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com I bet. -- ------------------ fjbbqjne ng qrzrgre qbg pnycbyl qbg rqh ------------------ Gur bayl checbfr bs guvf fvtangher vf gb trg crbcyr gb ebg-guvegrra vg... Qvq V rire fnl vg jnf tbvat gb or jbegujuvyr? Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!mips!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Subject: Re: Is Bigfoot a Visitor? Message-ID: <1992Jul31.180626.4291@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. References: <1992Jul23.134824.3067@desire.wright.edu> <1992Jul23.233900.28968@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Jul31.154025.12809@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Jul31.160956.25221@walter.bellcore.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 18:06:26 GMT Lines: 130 (Rod Beckwith) writes: |> > |> >What happened next was one of a few strange things that has happened |> to |> me |> >inmy life.I'm not sure exactly what time it was but it was |> pre-sunrise(you | >know when the sun has not come up over the horizen but the light begins |> to |> >dominate over the darkness.Well like I said , I never wake up but |> that |> >morning I woke out of a dead sleep & sat strait UP! Looked out of the |> >screen door to see to my amazement |> >7-10' creature standing ....................... |> |> >>A classic description of a hypnogogic (or is is hypnopompic?) vision, |> >>a hallucination that occurs at the boundary between sleep and |> wakeflness |> >>Sometimes the visions of the dream state and the background of the |> >>wakeful state become superimposed, for just a few seconds. Relax, |> >>you're perfectly normal - plenty of people have had experiences like |> this. |> |> >>I think that a lot of the "night abductors" are visions of this same |> >>sort. The mind provides the scary image, prompting the viewer to |> contact |> >>Budd Hopkins, and he "leads" them to fill in the rest. |> |> -- |> |> >>Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com |> |> |> Dear Mr. Closemindicus cause it has never happened to Himicus, |> |> You always seem to have a pat explanation for everything.You were not |> there,so I can't see how you can postulate such an irresponsible & |> ignorant |> speculation. I was fully awake genius. I can tell the difference |> between |> reality & a dream,although I don't think you will wake up from your |> personal nightmare! |> |> From the evidence I have seen sir,you are not a skeptic.......but a |> person |> who will deny anything that does not fit into the glass house you call |> reality.The day might come where a rock might be thrown in your general |> direction.....are you ready? As the glass shatters & crumbles around |> you, |> will you hold together or put a gun to your head? Only time will |> tell........... |> |> Like I have said to you before Robert....... |> |> "Feel not the comfort of your slumber,for when you awaken ,it may be |> too |> late" |> |> R.I.P. |> |> Rod |> |> -- |> Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |> Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, |> rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |> |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |> |> |> >>> Robert Sheaffer's response was a calmly rational alternative explanation >>>for that night's events. It's important that we keep open minds and remain >>>receptive to all arguments, whether they agree with our stand or not. >>>Rod Beckwith's attack on Robert, however, was as incoherent as it was >>>hysterical. >>>Rod, I suggest that you read the quote in your sig. Pay particular attention >>>to the word "illusion." >>>Mike Lynch Mr. Lynch, I did not tell my story to have some 2bit SKEPTIC tell me that I was hallucinating or having an illusion.Assuring me that that I was normal,HA! Gee thanks!Remeber he drew first blood by chastizing the account of my experience. I truly hope that someday that something quite odd happens to one of you,then after you clean your shorts & had time to think about it you might just realize that not everything is explainable by science & rationality.But then who do you tell? They (meaning people like Scepticus) will ridicule ya & write you off like it never happened. What then? Go see a shrink cause it's all in your head. After the shrink has convinced you that you hated you mothers cats' fleas feces you can go on in life & live happily ever after, knowing that it was just a hallucination.What a relief,phew! It never happened...... The only "illusion" I see here DENIAL,DENIAL,DENIAL. It reminds me of a scene from the movie ALIENS when Newt asks Riply why parents tell their kids there are no monsters & she (Riply) says,"cause most of the time it's true." The key here is MOST of the time,not ALL of the time. Life is stranger than fiction fellows......get a clue! BTW ,Mike since when are you the founding member of the Scepticus Maximus fan club? Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$  Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!nott-cs!epc From: epc@cs.nott.ac.uk (Elvis Presley's Corpse) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Orgone Energy Message-ID: <1992Jul31.170300.10935@cs.nott.ac.uk> Date: 31 Jul 92 17:03:00 GMT References: <13905@mindlink.bc.ca> Organization: Nottingham University Lines: 10 In article <13905@mindlink.bc.ca> Raymond_Shaw@mindlink.bc.ca (Raymond Shaw) writes: > All the orgone accumlators in the USA were "rounded up" and destroyed, > even though many people had experienced extraordinary cures to various > diseases, including cancer. In his will, Reich left instructions that > his writings be held back from the general public for 50 years. Reich > died in 1957. I heard the US government rounded up and destroyed most of his writings as well as the accumulators. Anyone know any more about this? Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!sunic!liuida!isy!isy!stefang From: stefang@isy.liu.se (Stefan Gustavson) Subject: Re: Orgone Energy Message-ID: Sender: news@isy.liu.se (Lord of the News) Organization: Dept of EE, University of Linkoping References: <13905@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 31 Jul 92 09:41:04 GMT Lines: 104 Raymond_Shaw@mindlink.bc.ca (Raymond Shaw) writes: >Hello Mark, > If you're really interested in this subject, I suggest you read some of >Wilhelm Reich's books. Reich was responsible for the "theory" of orgone energy ^^^^^^^^ Yeah, right. "Theory". Well-placed quotation marks. >and the development of the "orgone accumulator" -- the "box" to which you >refer. > An interesting note to this subject is the fact that Reich was a >contemporary of Freud, but branched out into his own line of investigation ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That is, went nuts. Poor chap. >which led to his discovery of orgone energy. He developed a box which had the >ability to "collect and trap" orgone energy. He found that when people were >exposed to the energy, they experienced increased vitality. He subsquently >began using it in his practice (he was a psychiatrist). He eventually ended up >in the USA where he started to distribute various sizes of orgone accumulators ^^^^^^^^^^ How come all these weirdos end up in the USA? >until the FDA decided they contravened American law and Reich was then ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That is, the advertising and selling of these things was a complete fraud. >imprisoned where he died shortly thereafter. All the orgone accumlators in the >USA were "rounded up" and destroyed, even though many people had experienced ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Do you really believe this? Were they considered 'communistic' or something? I think they just ended up in the junk yard because they didn't work. >extraordinary cures to various diseases, including cancer. In his will, Reich ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This one is classic. Get real, will you? The cure for cancer is successfully withheld from the public? And a government conspiracy covered it up? Gee. >left instructions that his writings be held back from the general public for 50 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Oh. How conveeeenient! Who is holding it back? For what reason? How come the government didn't just destroy the information along with the devices? >years. Reich died in 1957. > Among his books in print, there is one which is a compilation of his >various works (I found this one in my local library, sorry I can't remember the >title) in which details are given on how to build your own orgone accumlator. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ First you say they are illegal and that someone went through the trouble to find every single one of them and have them destroyed. Then you say you found detailed instructions on how to build one of your own in a book in your local library? Do you expect anybody to believe anything of what you've said? > Hope this helps. > Raymond Shaw. There are things which are hard to explain, but this is most certainly not one of those things. Anybody believing crap like this is the true dream of dictators and scientific and pseudo-religious charlatans everywhere. "I read this in a really expensive-looking book, so it must be true." Huh? If you must believe in lies, at least pick some fresh ones that have not been laughed at for decades already. /Stefan Gustavson (stefang@isy.liu.se) This could be considered a personal flame, but it is not intended to be. It is intended to be a general public flame to everybody being enough stupid to consider scepticism a bad thing. Believe in what you want, but see to it that you have some reason for it! If you didn't like my opinions above, please take these instead: I have (inofficial) contacts in the CIA, and I can tell you that Wilhelm Reich was a Nazi sent over to the USA to spread non-American ideology among the good American people. One of his achievements was to disguise as a shrink and hypnotize his patients into believing in unhealthy ideals. The effect of the hypnosis was maintained through several years through the clever use of a meditational device called "the orgone energy accumulator". This was a small box in which the patients would sit and unknowingly do a sort of autohypnosis. The patients were also hypnotized to think they experienced increased vitality. The wife of a hypnotized man figured something was wrong, and the CIA took him in for questioning. The plot was discovered, Reich was imprisoned and dozens of patients had to be de-programmed. The boxes were confiscated and destroyed. Some of his patients managed to escape, and to this day there are secret fractions all over the USA sitting in their boxes twice a day and continuing to covertly spread the Nazi propaganda of Herr Doktor Wilhelm Reich. Some of this propaganda is diguised as pseudo-scientific reviews of Reich's works and secretly planted in libraries everywhere. Apparently, this is what you have gotten hold of. DO NOT READ THIS BOOK! It contains massive subliminal programming messages that can actually lure you into non-American thinking. You are tricked to believe that the CIA is involved in a massive cover-up of the true nature of this incident, and that the theories of orgone energy are actually true. The CIA is really trying to hunt these people down, but with little result. (Author's name withheld for reasons of personal security) -------- DISCLAIMER: This is not a government cover-up of any kind. This is the truth. Honestly. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7745 alt.conspiracy:17236 alt.activism:30213 sci.skeptic:28174 misc.headlines:23010 alt.politics.bush:1084 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu!wb9omc From: wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: Date: 31 Jul 92 19:14:33 GMT References: <1992Jul31.011541.6582@bilver.uucp> Sender: news@noose.ecn.purdue.edu (USENET news) Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network Lines: 7 [gobbledeegook deleted] That was, without a doubt, the biggest bunch of pure manure I have read ANYwhere on ANY newsgroup..... Duane Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!chx400!sicsun!disuns2!/!moreillo From: moreillo@disuns2.epfl.ch (Guy Moreillon) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Get Off John's Back Please! Message-ID: <1992Jul31.113629@disuns2.epfl.ch> Date: 31 Jul 92 09:36:29 GMT Sender: news@disuns2.epfl.ch Organization: Ecole Polytechnique Federale de Lausanne Lines: 8 Nntp-Posting-Host: disun40.epfl.ch Yeah, guys, get off David Vincent's... er... John's back ! I get my kicks reading this guy's postings. It sure beats Star Trek. -- Guy Moreillon -- Oh my God, It's full of Stars... moreillo@disuns1.epfl.ch -- Dave Bowman moreillon@eldi.epfl.ch Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!convex!convex!swarren From: swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) Subject: Re: Orgone Energy Sender: usenet@news.eng.convex.com (news access account) Message-ID: <1992Jul31.201952.29783@news.eng.convex.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 20:19:52 GMT References: <13905@mindlink.bc.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: magnum.convex.com Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and not necessarily those of CONVEX. Lines: 16 In article stefang@isy.liu.se (Stefan Gustavson) writes: [...] >This could be considered a personal flame, but it is not intended to be. >It is intended to be a general public flame to everybody being enough >stupid to consider scepticism a bad thing. If you are really so proud of your scepticism (sic) you should at least learn how to spell it! ;^) If you are a sceptic, then you must be flaming the antisceptics! -- _. --Steve ._||__ Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer Warren v\ *| ----------------------------------------------- V Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!grip.cis.upenn.edu!jmv From: jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Is Bigfoot a Visitor? Message-ID: <84979@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: 31 Jul 92 20:18:29 GMT References: <1992Jul23.134824.3067@desire.wright.edu> <1992Jul23.233900.28968@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Jul31.154025.12809@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Jul31.160956.25221@walter.bellcore.com> <1992Jul31.180626.4291@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Organization: GRASP Lab Lines: 49 Nntp-Posting-Host: grip.cis.upenn.edu Rod, I usually don't feel the urge to post in this group, but this time I'd like to enter the thread, just to say: cool down. Sentences like "He drew blood first.." won't lead us very far. Let's examine the facts, ok ? You told us how you woke up once and saw a strange looking creature in front of you. It seems logical, under the circumstances to ask "Could it be a dream ?" "Were you fully awake ?".You say: |>I was fully awake genius. I can tell the difference |> between |> reality & a dream. Unfortunately, as many people could tell you, some dream look terribly real (I've dreamed I was waking up and something terrible, like my parents'death, was occuring. Looked TERRIBLY real, let me tell you). I'm NOT saying you were dreaming, it is just a POSSIBILITY. It could also be an alien. Or a stupid joke. As usual, it's normal to try the most plausible explanation first, and in your case, hypnogogic vision is the most plausible. (As it was said, it's a very common phenomenon. Aliens stepping in average citizens' bedroom is VERY rare, indeed). Of course, nothing is sure. But nobody DENIES you saw something. I remember one day in summer, I was around 10, I was looking at the afternoon blu sky. I spotted a "jet plane", following the tiny object along a linear progression. I told my mom, "look at the jet", I turned back to spot the plane again, I found it flying... exactly orthogonally to its previous direction ! Of course, nobody can believe that, and I've come up to several rationnal explanations. It still could be an UFO, but it's very unlikely. It is also very unlikely, although nobody can "prove" it, that you just had some kind of dreamish hallucination. JM. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!boulder!ucsu!cubldr.colorado.edu!crago_l From: crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Abduction claims Message-ID: <1992Jul31.150918.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Lines: 28 Sender: news@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder References: <139331.2A707317@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <3dpm03k.sheaffer@netcom.com> <1992Jul30.170555.14030@acd4.acd.com> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 22:09:18 GMT Lines: 28 In article , sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: > In article <1992Jul30.170555.14030@acd4.acd.com> gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes: >> >>So, Mr. Skeptic, what is your explanation for the supposed "abductees" >>regression statements that so many "UFO" writers are standing by? I was >>just complaining to a co-worker this morning that is about half way through >>Budd Hopkins' book "Intruders", as I am, that there is no middle ground in this >>subject called UFO/UFO abductions/Alien Visitors. Scientific men completely >>deny any existence but so many people swear its happen(ing)(ed). I am on the > > No doubt these people do indeed *claim* such experiences. But just because > somebody *claims* something happened doesn't mean that it did, and > sincerity is irrelevant to whether the claim is true or not; all it > means is that the person *believes* it's true. And anybody can hallucinate. > > -- > > Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com This blade cuts precisely both ways. Just because somebody *disclaims* that something happened doesn't mean that it did not, and sincerity is (still) irrelevant to whether the disclaimer is true or not: all it means is that the person *disbelieves*. It may or may not be true that anybody can hallucinate; it is indeed true that anybody can be subject to a state of denial, especially if the material threatens their entrenched belief system. Lou Crago Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!laidbak!tellab5!jcj From: jcj@tellabs.com (JCJ) Subject: Re: E.W.- UFO sighted! Message-ID: <1992Jul31.172224.11315@tellab5.tellabs.com> Sender: news@tellab5.tellabs.com (News) Nntp-Posting-Host: sunl12 Organization: Huh? References: Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 17:22:24 GMT Lines: 10 >... > SPY PLANE SPARKS SCARE >A MYSTERIOUS, fast moving shape in the sky has been >scaring sheep in western Scotland and rattling >windows in Los Angeles. There are reports of sudden "pulsating roars". >... Are we to presume that these events have happened simultaneously??? >... This is Aurora and although it's fast it isn't *that* fast 8-). See "Aviation Week and Space Technology" for details. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7751 alt.conspiracy:17238 alt.activism:30225 sci.skeptic:28189 misc.headlines:23012 alt.politics.bush:1098 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Jul31.212244.20376@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <1992Jul31.011541.6582@bilver.uucp> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 21:22:44 GMT Lines: 113 In article <1992Jul31.011541.6582@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: > > >This was sent to me by a friend who typed it up from a bulletin > >sent out from the C.A.C. (Cosmic Awareness) group, out in > >Washington State. I'm posting it as-is and am asking anyone > >who reads it to please take it with a BIG grain of salt. This > >info has NOT been verified. Anyone who can verify or refute > >it, please have at it. This will be posted to all the UFO > >conferences. - Don > >------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ATTENTION: CIVIL WAR IS ABOUT TO BEGIN IN THE UNITED STATES! > > YOU AND YOUR LOVED ONES ARE IN ACUTE DANGER! RACE RIOTS AND > > SLAUGHTER OF AMERICANS WILL BE THE FIRST SIGN! > Main crapola deleted... > > American homes, to confiscate all devices that are capable of > > communicating information, which includes video cameras, VCRs, > > computers, mimeographs, anything that can print, copy machines, > > etc. These troops are furnished certain lists of names, particu- > > larly those know as "Patriots" and these patriots and their > > families are rounded up first, and if not executed on the spot, > > are sent to any of the 13 concentration camps now fully activated > > in the United States. There is nobody left to tell what really In an armed society such as the USA this will be quite impossible. If anyone thinks that US citizens won't dust of the old .22 or the 12 gauge, they are completely wrong. Screw with their freedom, "authorized" gaurdsment or not, and they will blow a large hole through your frontal lobe, not to mention your ass! > URGENT: MAKE 30 COPIES AND MAIL TO MEDIA, POLITICIANS, CHURCHES, > > ORGANIZATIONS. POST ON BULLETIN BOARDS, PASS OUT TO CITIZENS IN > > THE STREETS! TIME IS RUNNING OUT! ACT NOW! Didn't I read this in the Inquirer? After all, I used to shovel bullshit, why not read a little to. Look folks, this could happen if this country weren't armed. Fact is over 100 million americans own guns that shoot real bullets. Going into homes and snatching people's stuff is very dangerouse regardless whether you are dressed in black OR green. I personally know of at least 10 percent of the people I work with that would hold this country together in case something like this happened. You can't use 500 thousand troups to make 100 million "authorized" robberies and expect a reasonable number to live. If this worries anybody, here is your peice of mind. First, join the NRA. Our forefathers knew what they were doing when they said: "The right to keep and bare arms shall not be infringed". Well, maybe they knew more than we think? Maybe the first civil war against the south was actually perpetrated by the greys!!!??? Next, fill the following list: 1 12 gauge shotgun: Remington 870 or equivalent. Full choke. 40 boxes of 2 3/4" ammunition. They come in boxes of 25 so this gives you 1000 rnds. Make sure they are BBs or #2 shot. Kills at <50 yards. Painful as hell at >100 yards. This is for the idiots that think they can get close enough to actually knock on your door. 1 30-06 Bolt action rifle. Winchester Mod. 70 / Remington 700 or equivalent. 20 boxes of 30-06/180 grain/softpoint/spitzer/boatail ammunition. Kills to 1000 yards but you gotta hit them. Sight it in to hit on at 25 yards. Its 2" high at 100 and on again at 250. Next, shoot anything that moves. Pay no attention to the white flag. Tell them that to leave is to make peace. The list goes on but just remember this: resist. If you will, everybody will. >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > >Don > > >-- >-* Don Allen *- // Only | Tavistock + Esalen = "New Age" >Internet: dona@bilver.uucp \X/ Amiga | Rothschild + Rockefeller = FED >UUCP: .uunet!peora!bilver!vicstoy!dona | UN + Maitreya = "Twilight Zone" >"A democracy cannot be both ignorant and free" - Thomas Jefferson Thanks Don. Appreciate you sending this. I hope too many people don't really believe this crap. Gregg. Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11063 alt.alien.visitors:7752 sci.skeptic:28190 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!gumby!destroyer!ncar!unmvax!intvax!smlacke From: smlacke@isrc.sandia.gov (Scott M Lackey) Subject: Re: Get Off John's Back Please! Message-ID: <1992Jul31.220107.25347@isrc.sandia.gov> Organization: Sandia National Labs, Org. 1600, Albq., NM References: Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 22:01:07 GMT Lines: 41 From article , by jennyb@triton.unm.edu (Jenny Ballmann): > In article <1992Jul29.185219.29352@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () writes: >> >>> Come on guys! Give the guy a break. I know John and he's a really >>> nice man. If you don'l like his posts then skip them. But geeze >>> why so hostile? Freedom of speech is for everyone not just the >>> people you agree with! >> >>> Denise >> >> It's not a question of freedom of speach it's the quality/quantity >> of John messages. It is rediculous and should be tempered. >> > He made the top 25 posters by number of articles list. That's for the > whole net, folks. He outdid Mutlu. > > Since you know him, Denise, why don't you teach him the difference between > email and posts, and what he is doing to piss people off? Can you explain > to him that these "Dear Dan" type messages are being copied not just to > "Dan", but to tens of thousands of people, who have to pay in one way or > another for it? > > This is assuming he doesn't know it already, and is not *trying* to look > clueless. > Not that this will do much good I predict, but could you also attempt to explain to him the point of sci.skeptic? A little bit about the scientific method and why his postings do not even qualify as scientifically meaningful regardless of being right or wrong. I'm not trying to be obnoxious or tell him to leave the net, but he has not posted in a way which is appropriate to sci.skeptic. alt.religion.newage yes, but sci.skeptic no. If he were to post in a way in which skepticism could be realistically applied, I would be glad to have his postings on the net, but until then he is just bizarre entertainment and there is no reason for him to expect to be treated differently than he now is. I agree that the one posting was excessive, but pragmatically, he should expect it to continue if he continues to post this way in this newsgroup. Scott Lackey. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!mips!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Subject: Re: Is Bigfoot a Visitor? Message-ID: <1992Aug1.005335.27908@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. References: <1992Jul23.134824.3067@desire.wright.edu> <1992Jul23.233900.28968@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Jul31.154025.12809@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Jul31.160956.25221@walter.bellcore.com> <1992Jul31.180626.4291@odin.corp.sgi.com> <84979@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1992 00:53:35 GMT Lines: 34 Jean -Marc, As I stated in my original post:" I woke out of a dead sleep & sat strait UP! Looked out of the screen door to see to my amazement 7-10' creature standing about 5-6' away......staring at me.I could not really see its eyes but it was apparently facing my direction. I then rubbed my eyes violently & took a second ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ look.....HOLY SHIT this thing is still standing there motionless." ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Mr. Scepticus for obvious reasons overlooked this point to make his.I RUBBED MY EYES VERY HARD TO ASSURE WHAT I WAS SEEING WAS REAL!!Waking dreams do not occur for that amount of time.I have had some pretty vivid dreams in the past & no one can convince me that what I saw was a hallucination or a waking dream! I don't see Mr. Scepticus wearing kid gloves with anyone in this group or anywhere else,that's not his way. He recieved exactly what he so richly deserves & if you or anyone else believe for a minute that he didn't ,you are entitled to your opinion. Have a nice weekend:-> Rod "not budging an inch" Beckwith -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$  Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!hellgate.utah.edu!csn!stortek!LSTC2VM.stortek.com!HOLFELTZ From: HOLFELTZ@LSTC2VM.stortek.com Subject: JVallee's Book 'Passport to Magonia ..' Message-ID: <16835E190.HOLFELTZ@LSTC2VM.stortek.com> Sender: usenet@stortek.com Nntp-Posting-Host: lstc2vm.stortek.com Organization: StorageTek SW Engineering Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 22:02:23 GMT Lines: 20 Hello, I'm new to this group, but have had an interest if UFO's since childhood. I'm looking for a copy of Jacque Vallee's book 'Passport to Magonia, from Folktale to UFO's' send e-mail: A poor Wayfaring Stranger [some say, a Strange One] in a strange land, +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Disclaimer: Not my employer's opinion; probably | | not your's either! | | Try: Roger_Holfeltz@stortek.com | | first --> or: HOLFELTZ@LSTC2VM.stortek.com | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!gumby!yale!yale.edu!nigel.msen.com!fmsrl7!lynx!umn.edu!i1.msi.umn.edu!frank From: frank@i1.msi.umn.edu (Loren Frank) Subject: Re: Abduction claims Message-ID: <1992Aug1.020831.16024@news2.cis.umn.edu> Sender: news@news2.cis.umn.edu (Usenet News Administration) Nntp-Posting-Host: i1.msi.umn.edu Organization: University of Minnesota References: <139331.2A707317@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <3dpm03k.sheaffer@netcom.com> <1992Jul30.170555.14030@acd4.acd.com> <1992Jul31.150918.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1992 02:08:31 GMT Lines: 67 crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes: >In article , sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: >> In article <1992Jul30.170555.14030@acd4.acd.com> gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes: >>> >>>So, Mr. Skeptic, what is your explanation for the supposed "abductees" >>>regression statements that so many "UFO" writers are standing by? I was >>>just complaining to a co-worker this morning that is about half way through >>>Budd Hopkins' book "Intruders", as I am, that there is no middle ground in this >>>subject called UFO/UFO abductions/Alien Visitors. Scientific men completely >>>deny any existence but so many people swear its happen(ing)(ed). I am on the >> >> No doubt these people do indeed *claim* such experiences. But just because >> somebody *claims* something happened doesn't mean that it did, and >> sincerity is irrelevant to whether the claim is true or not; all it >> means is that the person *believes* it's true. And anybody can hallucinate. >> >> -- >> >> Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com >This blade cuts precisely both ways. Just because somebody *disclaims* that >something happened doesn't mean that it did not, and sincerity is (still) >irrelevant to whether the disclaimer is true or not: all it means is that >the person *disbelieves*. It may or may not be true that anybody can >hallucinate; it is indeed true that anybody can be subject to a state of >denial, especially if the material threatens their entrenched belief system. >Lou Crago No it doesn't. Suppose that the scientific community is confronted with claims of a new phenomenon that is simply not consistent with current theories. Perhaps someone is claiming that, with the power of their mind alone, they can lift large object (or bend spoons or whatever). We have a lot evidence that suggests that the mind IS in a fundamental sense, the brain (brain damage leading to cognitive deficits, etc.) and we have modern physics. The upshot of all that is that there is no way, within a set of theories well supported by the available evidence, that a human being would be capable of such a feat. That does not mean that she is lying, of course, but rather that the accumulated evidence from numerous fields implies that she cannot do what she claims. As such, it is only reasonable to assume that she is lying or deluded or something. At the same time, that does not mean that, if there are credible witnesses who testify to her powers, she should be ignored. The analogy to ufo abducties is not perfect, but by the same token, it is irresponsible (scientifically) to accept these people's testimony at face value without any other supporting evidence, even if, in this case, the claim is not violating a known "law". The burden of proof does not fall on the scientists who are denying the phenomenon, but rather on the people who claim that it happened. If your neighbor tapped you on the shoulder one day with the suprising claim that his car could fly, but only when no one was looking, I would hope that you would not immediately believe his statement but rather ask questions and be skeptical until he gave a damn good explanation of his car's nature. I want to make sure that it is clear that I do not deny the possibility of UFO abductions. It is certainly possible that people have been abducted by aliens whose belief system is so utterly foreign that their motives are unclear or just bizarre. It is also possible that I am going straight to hell because I do not accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior. I am not prepared to believe either one, nor, I believe, should any self-respecting scientist, until a lot of evidence that goes beyond personal testimony is presented. Claiming that scientist's unwillingness to accept personal testimony as true is due to an ujustified entrenchment in a belief system is doing them an injustice. Finding out what is going on in this world, and getting through all of the half truths and lies in the world requires a great deal of skepticism. Loren Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!walter.cray.com!radner From: radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner) Subject: Re: Artsy MIBs and Alien MIBs Message-ID: <1992Jul31.204047.211@walter.cray.com> Organization: Cray Research, Inc. References: <62546@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul22.125200.20671@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> <62921@cup.portal.com> Date: 31 Jul 92 20:40:47 CDT Lines: 12 In article <62921@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Steve: >I believe that anything is possible. >John Winston. Dear John, You seem to believe that EVERYTHING is possible. -Lauren Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!atmsse From: atmsse@vax.oxford.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: A new newsgroup ALT.HOOKE.ALIENS Message-ID: <1992Jul31.122050.7947@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Date: 31 Jul 92 11:20:50 GMT Organization: Oxford University VAXcluster Lines: 5 I propose a new newsgroup ALT.HOOKE.ALIENS to investigate the effect of fluid dynamics on alien spacecraft entering the earth's atmosphere. Slime-on... ATMSSE@VAX.OX.AC.UK Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!bu.edu!dartvax!Frederick.A.Ringwald From: Frederick.A.Ringwald@dartmouth.edu (Frederick A. Ringwald) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll Message-ID: <1992Aug1.022817.15388@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Date: 1 Aug 92 02:28:17 GMT References: <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@dartvax.dartmouth.edu (The News Manager) Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH Lines: 10 In article <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: [...] > > yes [X] John,please refrain from posting what should be email responses to > this newsgroup. Agreed, but how can you complain about wasted bandwidth in a newsgroup called alt.alien.visitors? Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!walter.cray.com!radner From: radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner) Subject: How to put ..."someone" ...in a Kill file... Message-ID: <1992Jul31.212914.552@walter.cray.com> Organization: Cray Research, Inc. Date: 31 Jul 92 21:29:14 CDT Lines: 43 Let's say you want to put someONE (not some *subject*) in your kill file. Here's how: Let's use a random net address, such as : John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com 1) Get in to edit mode with your kill file. (on our system, a "k" will get you into edit mode. If that doesn't work, or you are curious about more options, try typing "h" and see if a "help" feature doesn't show up). 2) You should be in the "vi" editor at this point. Add a line to your kill file that looks like this: /John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com/j This means find (the first "/") and "junk" (the "j"), ie, mark as read, all articles authored by this person. 3) Add another line that looks like this: /John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com/h:j This means find all headers (the "h") containing this character string and junk them. Hope that helps, -Lauren ps - in case you don't know, at our site at least, to put a *subject* in a kill file, just hit "k" and all further instances of that subject line will be ignored. pss - Also, to search forward through all the articles for a particular theme of interest, say..."How to Serve Man", you can type a "/serv" and it will go to the next one. When you're done reading it, just hit "/" to go forward through all the next articles and look for that subject, or "?" go backwards through all the articles looking for that subject. The character string search is not case- sensitive ("/SERve" and "/seRvE" will find the same articles). Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7760 alt.conspiracy:17241 alt.activism:30236 sci.skeptic:28195 misc.headlines:23015 alt.politics.bush:1102 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!ub!galileo.cc.rochester.edu!gauguin.cc.rochester.edu!hpky From: hpky@gauguin.cc.rochester.edu (Hanan Polanski) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug1.041842.19761@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> Date: 1 Aug 92 04:18:42 GMT References: <1992Jul31.011541.6582@bilver.uucp> <1992Jul31.212244.20376@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@galileo.cc.rochester.edu Organization: University of Rochester - Rochester, New York Lines: 42 Nntp-Posting-Host: gauguin.cc.rochester.edu In <1992Jul31.212244.20376@acd4.acd.com> gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes: >> are sent to any of the 13 concentration camps now fully activated >> in the United States. Really? Name two. >In an armed society such as the USA this will be quite impossible. If anyone >thinks that US citizens won't dust of the old .22 or the 12 gauge, they are >completely wrong. Screw with their freedom, "authorized" gaurdsment or not, >and they will blow a large hole through your frontal lobe, not to mention >your ass! True. >> URGENT: MAKE 30 COPIES AND MAIL TO MEDIA, POLITICIANS, CHURCHES, >> ORGANIZATIONS. POST ON BULLETIN BOARDS, PASS OUT TO CITIZENS IN >> THE STREETS! TIME IS RUNNING OUT! ACT NOW! I don't think so. (Having this ONE copy is bad enough!!) I-) >If this worries anybody, here is your peice of mind. First, join the NRA. I DEFINITELY don't think so! I know this isn't the place to discuss the merits or faults of the NRA, (don't you think keeping semi-automatic weapons in the home is over-kill?I-) but for someone who isn't taking this "threat" very seriously, you sound like you're taking it awfully *seriously*. (not meant to be a flame, just an alternate viewpoint I-) >The list goes on but just remember this: resist. If you will, everybody will. If the "threat" exists, I *will* resist! But somehow, I don't think so. James Willer : email to jmw1388@cs.rit.edu {The opinions above are probably NOT those of Hanan Polansky. I don't know. I never asked.} Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7761 alt.conspiracy:17246 alt.activism:30241 sci.skeptic:28197 misc.headlines:23018 alt.politics.bush:1105 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!hubcap!trev From: trev@hubcap.clemson.edu (Trevor Bauknight) Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug1.073525.15555@hubcap.clemson.edu> Organization: Jes Grew Carriers -- Metaphysical Bunko Squad References: <1992Jul31.011541.6582@bilver.uucp> <1992Jul31.212244.20376@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug1.041842.19761@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1992 07:35:25 GMT Lines: 17 hpky@gauguin.cc.rochester.edu (Hanan Polanski) writes: >(don't you think keeping semi-automatic weapons in the home is over-kill?I-) No...why? I, for one, don't want a populace incapable of armed insurrection against our government, however benign or tyranical it is. Semiautomatics, automatics, cannons, bazookas, grenades, whatever... Why would you have a problem with law-abiding citizens owning semiautomatic weapons? What harm could it possibly do? Trevor Bauknight trev@hubcap.clemson.edu ...gatech!hubcap!trev +-----------+ | _> ### | go gamecocks | | | +-----------+ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!newshub.sdsu.edu!voyager4!melissa From: melissa@voyager4.sdsu.edu (Melissa ) Subject: Re: The Truth About......... Message-ID: <1992Aug1.090711.598@newshub.sdsu.edu> Sender: news@newshub.sdsu.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: voyager4.sdsu.edu Organization: San Diego State University, College of Sciences X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4 References: <63006@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1992 09:07:11 GMT Lines: 20 (Send mail to mike@cadme2.sdsu.edu not melissa) John, Thanks for the info, I watched the video again last night and the titles of the books were "The Seed", and "The Star People", apparently written along with his wife. I mean the second one, at least. He said he met her at a convention about twenty-odd years ago. BTW, have you considered the fact that you are just about the only person who ever posts in this group? The handful of times that I have checked, yours are the predominent(sp?) writings. Am I to assume that you are the local "Guru" on the paranormal and ufoligy? I don't mean this as a "flame", as they call it, but I am really interested in the fact that you know, and keep up with so much that goes on in the world of the paranormal and "strange occurences". Michael Whittington mike@cadme2.sdsu.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!newshub.sdsu.edu!voyager4!melissa From: melissa@voyager4.sdsu.edu (Melissa ) Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll Message-ID: <1992Aug1.091901.747@newshub.sdsu.edu> Sender: news@newshub.sdsu.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: voyager4.sdsu.edu Organization: San Diego State University, College of Sciences X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4 References: <62909@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1992 09:19:01 GMT Lines: 17 (Send mail to mike@cadme2.sdsu.edu, not melissa) Hey! Is this not a discussion group? Where opinions, wide and varied, can find an outlet? I do believe, though I've not posted or contributed much on thi group, that everyone is entitled to their own opinions and ideas. Why can't John write what he feels to be important to some- one who is reading the group for the first time? Lay off! Let everyone speak! We may just figure this out if we get enough input! Just an opinion. Michael Whittington mike@cadme2.sdsu.edu Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Moon Activities? Message-ID: <139502.2A79E0E1@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 1 Aug 92 00:42:03 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Someone posted earlier about lights on the moon and a bridge thing > happening > about 30 years ago. Even though this is about 10 years before my time, > I > still read about it. I also heard, about little 'domes' appearing upon > the > moon's face around Plato, around this time. Does anyone have any > further > info, ie. was any reason found for these sightings? I believe you are referring to what is known as Lunar Transient Anomalies (LTA). NASA compiled a paper about this listing the various observations that go back a couple of hundred years about people observing strange light activity on the moon. However, it has been theorized that the light phenomena seen there may be volcanic activity. The report from NASA is interesting. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Men In Black Message-ID: <139500.2A79E0DC@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 1 Aug 92 00:42:01 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - From what I have read of old Budd's technique, he is terribly > incompetant and seems to be totally unaware of this issue. My > observation is that he is spreading his own beliefs by hypnotic > suggestion. In other words, the explanation is simple--a charlatan > is promulgating his own twisted fantasies through abuse of hypnotism. > > This would be almost funny if he weren't doing such damage to his > victims. Whatever problems these people may or may not have had > (and some of them definitely had problems before Budd got them), > they now have a firmly entrenched belief that they have been raped > by aliens. In most cases, this belief is incorrect, but the > psychological effect is likely to be horrible. > > Budd and the other "abductionophiles" have a lot to answer for. I agree that hypnosis is a shaky method of attempting to validate an experience as real or not, but there is an even bigger problem. That is that a good number of alleged abductees are able to recall the experience without the use of hypnosis at all. The question of whether or not the experience is real is the one that must be studied. The evidence is compelling. Something very strange is going on and it is not necessarily fraud. Explain how people from different parts of the country, totally unrelated to one another, can describe the same exact thing? This happens in a good number of these cases. The big question is not if the experience is about aliens abducting humans for genetic experimentation, but rather, what does the experience represent. Does it represent a physical experience or something else? These questions will not be answered properly until we decide on the best methods to use to validate it. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Abductions (was: Men In Black) Message-ID: <139501.2A79E0DE@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 1 Aug 92 00:42:02 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - No doubt these people do indeed *claim* such experiences. But just > because > somebody *claims* something happened doesn't mean that it did, and > sincerity is irrelevant to whether the claim is true or not; all it > means is that the person *believes* it's true. And anybody can > hallucinate. As they can be seriously deluded as well...:-) Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a3744 From: Steve_Sawyer@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Sawyer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: More please Message-ID: <13927@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 1 Aug 92 09:46:37 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Distribution: world Lines: 7 I am an alien being not of this planet communicating to you on behalf of all beings from all worlds in all dimensions. There is purpose to this communication....please...teach me more about your beliefs and ideals. What is it that you strive for? Can I be of help? . Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psgrain!onion!pail!ralex From: ralex@pail.rain.com (Randy Alexander) Subject: Re: Moon activities? Message-ID: <1992Aug1.093026.6705@pail.rain.com> Keywords: moon, wierd Organization: Rick's Home-Grown Un*x References: <1992Jul31.015626.26978@mach4.wlu.ca> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1992 09:30:26 GMT Lines: 28 In <1992Jul31.015626.26978@mach4.wlu.ca> kfisher3@mach4.wlu.ca (kevin fisher U) writes: >Someone posted earlier about lights on the moon and a bridge thing happening >about 30 years ago. Even though this is about 10 years before my time, I >still read about it. I also heard, about little 'domes' appearing upon the >moon's face around Plato, around this time. Does anyone have any further >info, ie. was any reason found for these sightings? When I was a kid (about 14 or so 20 years ago) I had a 4 inch reflector telescope. Many a night I would watch the stars, planets and moon and never did I see anything strange. One night I did see a small black dot moving across in front of the moon at a fast rate. I was able to follow the dot until it past the disk of the moon. It was clear and defined and looked like something in orbit of the moon. At the time I remember we did not have any spacecraft on a mission and remember thinking I doubt that I would be able to see it anyway. I will probably never know what it was I saw... But it was so unusual that I remembber it clearly today. Randy ralex@bucket.rain.com -- +----------------------------------------+---------------------------------+ | INTERNET: ralex@pail.rain.com | Only AMIGA Makes it Possible | | ralex@bucket.rain.com |---------------------------------| | ralex@euclid.humbolt.edu | The opinions expressed in the | Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Hatton: CIA or ET? Message-ID: <36668.2139220130@kcbbs.gen.nz> From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Date: 1 Aug 92 10:11:08 GMT References: <9207292109.AA03581@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 12 lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM 29 Jul 92 21:09:38 GMT types-- >Does anyone have anything at all regarding Green? Would that be Green of Little Green Men? If not I probably dont. **************************************** RE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL? ************************************** Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11065 alt.alien.visitors:7770 sci.skeptic:28199 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Get Off John's Back Please! Message-ID: <63199@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 92 06:24:31 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul31.220107.25347@isrc.sandia.gov> Lines: 10 Everybody listen up. We have the final results of the second running of the Astral Convoy Sweepstakes. We have D. coming out fast, in fact she started about two hours early and was called on a technical due to a false start. D. does say that she had a nice journey and enjoyed her= self. We have a new lady in the group that we'll call D. or better still we'll call her R2D2. Last weed she would up goinng horseback riding with me but this week she really got serious and wound up sort of tired when it was over but had a mellow feeling about herself. She felt that people started treating her with more respect and that she could see the light in other people. This is what it's all about folks-- Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11066 alt.alien.visitors:7771 sci.skeptic:28201 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Get Off John's Back Please! Message-ID: <63200@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 92 06:34:16 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul31.220107.25347@isrc.sandia.gov> Lines: 11 --people working together. Let me give you an occult secret. When you get two people thinking together on a idea you get so much power. With three you get so much. When you get 12 plus one your get the maximum amount that can be generated by any number. Give me 12 people like R2D2 and we can change the world. Another person by the name of Kumar took a trip with us but came in contact with person who claimed to be his father (probubly not me) and this person taught him some great things. This is good too. Some people just say they are dreaming of going on this journey. That's fine too. I'll be trying to figure out a place that we can all meet next time and it will have something to do with a certain lady. --John Winston. Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.bizarre:68393 alt.alien.visitors:7772 Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!demon!orbital.demon.co.uk!fluke From: fluke@orbital.demon.co.uk (Mr Fluke) Subject: Re: Ley Linesj Message-ID: <1992Jul31.211221.20036@orbital.demon.co.uk> Organization: The Third Spectrul Profumgulance of Antiloppe References: <62611@cup.portal.com> <62936@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul29.152702.7897@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1992 21:12:21 GMT Lines: 14 In article <1992Jul29.152702.7897@vax.oxford.ac.uk> reese@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes: >In article <62936@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >> --the Goddess and other planets and other constellations that she speaks >> to, so when you are looking at these two barbells which are symbolical >> of these particular configurations and you have two parallel lines that >> are very close together and usually on either side of these circles, >> these little parallel lines indicate the {specific} transformation doorways >> for the earth and her conciousness. End of Part 3. >> John Winston. > >Anyone know what all this rubbish is about? Answers on a postcard please. Ummm... the dangers of letting people post to the net from public access sites? Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psinntp!dg-rtp!webo!dg-webo!tom From: tom@kether.webo.dg.com (Tom Sullivan) Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll Sender: usenet@webo.dg.com (Usenet Administration) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com's message of Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:10:26 GMT Date: 31 Jul 92 16:31:56 References: <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> Organization: NSDD, Data General Corp. Lines: 38 >>>>> On Mon, 27 Jul 1992 17:10:26 GMT, rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) said: Rod> Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com Rod> Hello any & everybody, Rod> Mabye John will get the MESSAGE this way?!?! All those in favor of dear old Rod> John_-_Winston sending e-mail instead of posting his responses to the world Rod> at large , please post a RE: to this message to let the post happy Rod> bandwidth burner Rod> know we are all growing weary of his blatent disregard for information Rod> dissemination in an organized & efficient manner.The next step of course Rod> would be to contact the NETWORK POLICE to give him a keyboard enema. Rod> The choices are: Rod> yes [X] John,please refrain from posting what should be email responses to Rod> this newsgroup. Rod> no [ ] John, continue with your irratating ways. We love to read all of Rod> your responses to questions & flames that we have never seen. Rod> Rod> the old moronic no opinion [ ] What a stupid idea in the first place,who Rod> cares about someone with no opinion. Rod> Rod Give John a break. I enjoy his postings, precisely because they are more far-out. The UFO-thing is definately unsolved, and I want to hear ALL possibilities. Most of the sceptical reponses to John's posts are also personally insulting to John. I consider these MUCH more offensive than John's info or email-on-the-net. To think that our science is the end-all to knowledge is incredibly naive (I personally think that our science is only beginning to understand the Universe, and this makes science exciting). So, if there are alternative theories/explainations for all this, I consider them welcome. I'm NOT for censorship, which is what this posting implies. Tom Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psinntp!dg-rtp!webo!dg-webo!tom From: tom@kether.webo.dg.com (Tom Sullivan) Subject: Re: Orgone Energy Sender: usenet@webo.dg.com (Usenet Administration) Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Mark-Tarbell@suite.com's message of 30 Jul 92 01:16:12 GMT Date: 31 Jul 92 17:28:09 References: <345@suite.uunet.uu.net> Organization: NSDD, Data General Corp. Lines: 19 >>>>> On 30 Jul 92 01:16:12 GMT, Mark-Tarbell@suite.com said: Mark> Nntp-Posting-Host: gilgamesh Mark> My Digital Webster dictionary defines "orgone energy" as: Mark> or gone \'o (e)r-,go n\ n Mark> [prob. fr. orgasm + -one (as in hormone)] Mark> (1942) Mark> :a vital energy held to pervade nature and to be made available for use by Mark> the human body by sitting in a specially designed box Mark> Okay, I give. What's the story here? Mark> (...and where can I get one of them BOXES!!!) This refers to an invention of Wilhelm Reich (I probably botched the spelling of his name). He claimed that his Orgone Accumulators could accumulate this "energy" and be used for healing and such. The FDA came down on him (very hard) and he ended up in prison with all of his materials confiscated and burned. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7775 alt.conspiracy:17250 alt.activism:30251 sci.skeptic:28203 misc.headlines:23022 alt.politics.bush:1109 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!psuvax1!uxa.ecn.bgu.edu!cfkfb From: cfkfb@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Karl Bridges) Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug1.155241.8405@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu> Organization: Educational Computing Network References: <1992Jul31.011541.6582@bilver.uucp> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1992 15:52:41 GMT Lines: 1 Aliens don't bother me. If they bleed they can die. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7776 alt.conspiracy:17251 alt.activism:30252 sci.skeptic:28204 misc.headlines:23023 alt.politics.bush:1111 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!torn!maccs!mcshub!physun!bunker From: bunker@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Alex Bunker) Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> Sender: usenet@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca Nntp-Posting-Host: physun.physics.mcmaster.ca Organization: Dept. of Physics & Astronomy, McMaster University References: <1992Jul31.212244.20376@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug1.041842.19761@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> <1992Aug1.073525.15555@hubcap.clemson.edu> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1992 16:27:19 GMT Lines: 30 In article <1992Aug1.073525.15555@hubcap.clemson.edu> trev@hubcap.clemson.edu (Trevor Bauknight) writes: >hpky@gauguin.cc.rochester.edu (Hanan Polanski) writes: > >>(don't you think keeping semi-automatic weapons in the home is over-kill?I-) > >No...why? I, for one, don't want a populace incapable of armed insurrection >against our government, however benign or tyranical it is. Semiautomatics, >automatics, cannons, bazookas, grenades, whatever... > >Why would you have a problem with law-abiding citizens owning semiautomatic >weapons? What harm could it possibly do? > >Trevor Bauknight trev@hubcap.clemson.edu ...gatech!hubcap!trev > > +-----------+ > | _> ### | > go gamecocks | | | > +-----------+ This is where I have to cut in look at the statistics in the real world. The USA has a murder rate 10X higher than any of the other democracies. IS IT really worth this "right to bear arms" crap? how are Germans,french,Canadians,UKers more opressed than Americans? They have low crime rates and stringent firearm laws. In what way are they any worse off because of this? I can think of a lot of ways they are BETTER off... ALEX .. Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: More please Message-ID: Date: 1 Aug 92 17:23:32 GMT References: <13927@mindlink.bc.ca> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 39 Steve_Sawyer@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Sawyer) writes: I am an alien being not of this planet communicating to you on behalf of all beings from all worlds in all dimensions. There is purpose to this communication....please...teach me more about your beliefs and ideals. What is it that you strive for? Can I be of help? . .... I suggest you start by reading a few books. Start with assorted histories of humanity, in as many different languages as you can read (to get as many viewpoints as possible.) Then religious books (the "central texts" from each major religion, a few from not-so-major), then philosophy (pick 10 at random.) Then learn to play soccer and baseball, chess and poker. Learn Tai-chi. Watch Comedy Central for a few days, then The Learning Channel. Then listen to the music of various western classical composers, then eastern, then african, then jazz, then randomly-selected currently-popular music of as many countries as you can find. Then listen to the recordings of Mort Sahl, Bill Cosby, and Victor Borge. Then watch a day or so of selected Warner Brothers cartoons, then a day or so of Monte Python. Then watch 'Casablanca', 'Citizen Kane', 'Lawrence of Arabia', 'Big Red One', 'Fort Apache', 'The Thing', 'Invasion of the Body Snatchers', 'A Fine Madness', the last week of the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, 'Circle of Iron', a few Gilbert and Sullivan operettas (I recommend "Princess Ida"), 'The Ruling Class', 'Emporer Jones' (the original), 'Coconuts', 'Barefoot in the Park', 'Love and Death', and 'Chariots of Fire'. (Then find somebody who knows more about non-English-speaking movies, and ask them for some more.) After that, come back and talk to us again. (Expecting any one person -- or even a relatively small group) to teach you about all of humanity's beliefs and ideals is asking a bit much.) Rather than a general question, you may be able to ask questions we can answer :-) Charles PS - I don't really want to get into shouting match on the list about the movies/books/etc. I picked out; though a calm discussion of "gold record Mk. II" might be amusing. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!nntp.uoregon.edu!cajal.uoregon.edu!johnm From: johnm@cajal.uoregon.edu (John Martin) Subject: Re: Abduction claims Message-ID: <1992Aug1.181618.20970@nntp.uoregon.edu> Keywords: n Sender: news@nntp.uoregon.edu Organization: Institute of Neuroscience, University of Oregon References: <1992Jul31.150918.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> <1992Aug1.020831.16024@news2.cis.umn.edu> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 92 18:16:18 GMT Lines: 12 In article <1992Aug1.020831.16024@news2.cis.umn.edu>, frank@i1.msi.umn.edu (Loren Frank) writes: >No it doesn't. Suppose that the scientific community is confronted with >claims of a new phenomenon that is simply not consistent with current theories. You mean like the Theory of Relativity? Quantum Physics? Hypnotism? etc... -- John Martin johnm@cajal.uoregon.edu Institute of Neuroscience, University of Oregon, Eugene, OR, 97402 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!jcitro3 From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) Subject: Re: Moon activities? Message-ID: <1992Aug1.190051.5267@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha References: <1992Aug1.093026.6705@pail.rain.com> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1992 19:00:51 GMT Lines: 32 ralex@pail.rain.com writes: > In <1992Jul31.015626.26978@mach4.wlu.ca> kfisher3@mach4.wlu.ca (kevin fisher U) writes: > > >Someone posted earlier about lights on the moon and a bridge thing happening > >about 30 years ago. Even though this is about 10 years before my time, I > >still read about it. I also heard, about little 'domes' appearing upon the > >moon's face around Plato, around this time. Does anyone have any further > >info, ie. was any reason found for these sightings? > > > When I was a kid (about 14 or so 20 years ago) I had a 4 inch reflector > telescope. Many a night I would watch the stars, planets and moon and > never did I see anything strange. One night I did see a small black dot > moving across in front of the moon at a fast rate. I was able to follow the > dot until it past the disk of the moon. It was clear and defined and > looked like something in orbit of the moon. At the time I remember we did > not have any spacecraft on a mission and remember thinking I doubt that > I would be able to see it anyway. I will probably never know what it > was I saw... But it was so unusual that I remembber it clearly today. > > Randy > > ralex@bucket.rain.com > > -- > +----------------------------------------+---------------------------------+ > | INTERNET: ralex@pail.rain.com | Only AMIGA Makes it Possible | > | ralex@bucket.rain.com |---------------------------------| > | ralex@euclid.humbolt.edu | The opinions expressed in the | Maybe it was a bug walking across the lens ;) ! Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7780 alt.conspiracy:17252 alt.activism:30256 sci.skeptic:28207 misc.headlines:23024 alt.politics.bush:1114 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!jcitro3 From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug1.191408.5380@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha References: <1992Jul31.212244.20376@acd4.acd.com> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1992 19:14:08 GMT Lines: 8 Gregg, Personally I prefer the M-203 grenade launcher! Also, Bush should be pleased to know that he wins the november election. Maybe the post "October Surprise" should be renamed "November Surprise" ;). Joseph A. Citro III Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7781 alt.conspiracy:17254 alt.activism:30261 sci.skeptic:28209 misc.headlines:23026 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!coriolis!mitch From: mitch@coriolis.UUCP (Mitch) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.po Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: Date: Sat, 01 Aug 92 12:34:21 PDT References: <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> Organization: Albedo Communications Lines: 27 bunker@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Alex Bunker) writes: > This is where I have to cut in look at the statistics in the real > world. The USA has a murder rate 10X higher than any of the > other democracies. IS IT really worth this "right to bear > arms" crap? how are Germans,french,Canadians,UKers more > opressed than Americans? They have low crime rates and > stringent firearm laws. In what way are they any worse off > because of this? I can think of a lot of ways they are > BETTER off... How many deaths are cuase by *legal* firearms? How many would have been caused by other means? Yes, I think the relative availability of weapons in this country means more people gets shot each year. That's not a complete argument, though; those same conservative Germans love to drive 100+ on the Autobahn, and die in freeway accidents at even even more appalling rate than Americans do. Is this fascination with high speeds worth the toll? Gun ownership makes some people feel more secure, prevents some crimes, and may have some value in deterring tyranny. It also makes some people feel less secure, allows and aggravates some crimes and accidents, and permits acts of rebellion against the lawful government. Freeway driving, of course, causes far more death and destruction, and doesn't even have a putative claim to constitutional protection. Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.bizarre:68404 alt.alien.visitors:7782 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!emory!athena.cs.uga.edu!milliken From: milliken@athena.cs.uga.edu (Brewmeister) Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Linesj Message-ID: <1992Aug1.202737.12474@athena.cs.uga.edu> Date: 1 Aug 92 20:27:37 GMT References: <62936@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul29.152702.7897@vax.oxford.ac.uk> <1992Jul31.211221.20036@orbital.demon.co.uk> Organization: University of Georgia, Athens Lines: 24 In article <1992Jul31.211221.20036@orbital.demon.co.uk> fluke@orbital.demon.co.uk (Mr Fluke) writes: >In article <1992Jul29.152702.7897@vax.oxford.ac.uk> reese@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes: >>In article <62936@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >>> --the Goddess and other planets and other constellations that she speaks >>> to, so when you are looking at these two barbells which are symbolical >>> of these particular configurations and you have two parallel lines that >>> are very close together and usually on either side of these circles, >>> these little parallel lines indicate the {specific} transformation doorways >>> for the earth and her conciousness. End of Part 3. >>> John Winston. >> >>Anyone know what all this rubbish is about? Answers on a postcard please. > >Ummm... the dangers of letting people post to the net from public access >sites? Nope. The dangers of posting to the net after ingesting certain types of mushrooms. -- Copy this .sig and just say noe to big-brother's monitoring of public bandwidth *Bush Quayle conspriacy JFK cocaine LSD heroin marijuana AK-47 Iran Iraq Libya* *Sandinista Contras Panama Noriega FBI CIA NSA Secret Service fixed-elections * *Neil Bush S&L coverup potatoe wiretaps search & seizure bill of rights dead * Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!i1.msi.umn.edu!frank From: frank@i1.msi.umn.edu (Loren Frank) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Abduction claims Keywords: n Message-ID: <1992Aug1.205835.24853@news2.cis.umn.edu> Date: 1 Aug 92 20:58:35 GMT References: <1992Jul31.150918.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> <1992Aug1.020831.16024@news2.cis.umn.edu> <1992Aug1.181618.20970@nntp.uoregon.edu> Sender: news@news2.cis.umn.edu (Usenet News Administration) Organization: University of Minnesota Lines: 30 Nntp-Posting-Host: i1.msi.umn.edu johnm@cajal.uoregon.edu (John Martin) writes: >In article <1992Aug1.020831.16024@news2.cis.umn.edu>, frank@i1.msi.umn.edu (Loren Frank) writes: >>No it doesn't. Suppose that the scientific community is confronted with >>claims of a new phenomenon that is simply not consistent with current theories. >You mean like the Theory of Relativity? Quantum Physics? Hypnotism? etc... Yes. Exactly. I realize that those theories were not, at the time they were proposed, consistent with the "current" theories of the scientific community. The point is, though, that those theories were not supported solely by the claims of a group of individuals but instead explained problems with the older theories (the spectrum of black body radiation, the precession in the orbit of Mercury, etc.) that Newtonian phsyics could not. But scientists of the time did not immediately jump on the bandwagon of Relativity or Quantum mechanics. For the most part they waited until there was "hard" evidence that the theories corresponded to the real phenomena before accepting those theories. I believe that good science involves a commitment to the present paradigm until something that explains more and does a better job comes along. In the case of UFO abducties, I am extremely unconvinced that explaining their claims that they were abducted by believing that they were in fact abducted is a better alternative than to look for psychological causes for their claims. "Do not multiply particulars unnecessarily" (or how ever William of Ockham said it...) Loren Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!torn!watserv2.uwaterloo.ca!watserv1!mach4!kfisher3 From: kfisher3@mach4.wlu.ca (kevin fisher U) Subject: Re: Moon Activities? References: <139502.2A79E0E1@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Message-ID: <1992Aug1.211804.5485@mach4.wlu.ca> Organization: Wilfrid Laurier University Date: Sat, 1 Aug 92 21:18:04 GMT Lines: 36 In article <139502.2A79E0E1@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes: > > > Someone posted earlier about lights on the moon and a bridge thing > > happening > > about 30 years ago. Even though this is about 10 years before my time, > > I > > still read about it. I also heard, about little 'domes' appearing upon > > the > > moon's face around Plato, around this time. Does anyone have any > > further > > info, ie. was any reason found for these sightings? > >I believe you are referring to what is known as Lunar Transient Anomalies >(LTA). NASA compiled a paper about this listing the various observations >that go back a couple of hundred years about people observing strange light >activity on the moon. However, it has been theorized that the light >phenomena seen there may be volcanic activity. The report from NASA is >interesting. > >Mike > >-- >Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 >UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name >INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG The only problem with volcanic activity is that the lights were apparently appearing in geometric forms (triangles, squares). The source I read has an IMMENSE distrust of NASA (because of it's gov't affiliations :) Just a thought... -- Kevin Fisher ><> UUCP:kfisher3@mach4.wlu.ca Tiger-Tiger! Physics & Computing '92 at WLU - - "I can't handle it!" We're gonna have a ball tonight, Down at the Globe.." - - BAD II Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7785 alt.conspiracy:17256 alt.activism:30270 sci.skeptic:28220 misc.headlines:23028 alt.politics.bush:1120 talk.politics.guns:37288 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush,talk.politics.guns Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!mtu.edu!mtu.edu!cescript From: cescript@mtu.edu (Charles Scripter) Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug2.025717.24414@mtu.edu> Followup-To: talk.politics.guns Sender: news@mtu.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: phyfac7.phy.mtu.edu Organization: Michigan Technological University References: <1992Jul31.212244.20376@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug1.041842.19761@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> <1992Aug1.073525.15555@hubcap.clemson.edu> <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1992 02:57:17 GMT Lines: 49 In article <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca>, bunker@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Alex Bunker) writes: > In article <1992Aug1.073525.15555@hubcap.clemson.edu> trev@hubcap.clemson.edu > (Trevor Bauknight) writes: > >hpky@gauguin.cc.rochester.edu (Hanan Polanski) writes: > > > >>(don't you think keeping semi-automatic weapons in the home is over-kill?I-) > > > >No...why? I, for one, don't want a populace incapable of armed insurrection > >against our government, however benign or tyranical it is. Semiautomatics, > >automatics, cannons, bazookas, grenades, whatever... > > > >Why would you have a problem with law-abiding citizens owning semiautomatic > >weapons? What harm could it possibly do? Incidentally, semi-automatic .22 rifles are very popular these days; People just don't like those old bolt action jobs. > > > > [...] > > This is where I have to cut in look at the statistics in the real > world. The USA has a murder rate 10X higher than any of the > other democracies. Gee, seems like the best way to cure that, is to ban murder... Clearly the strict gun laws in Washington DC explain their much lower murder rate. (highest in the, nation, isn't it?) > IS IT really worth this "right to bear > arms" crap? how are Germans,french,Canadians,UKers more > opressed than Americans? They have low crime rates and > stringent firearm laws. In what way are they any worse off > because of this? I can think of a lot of ways they are > BETTER off... Well, Alex, I'm going to invite you to drop in on talk.politics.guns (please note the followup line to t.p.g). I think it would be worth visiting for a while. You might learn something new. And it is the correct group for discussing this topic. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Charles Scripter * cescript@phy.mtu.edu Dept of Physics * Michigan Technological University * Houghton, MI 49931 * ------------------------------------------------------------------- With your one remaining eye, please do NOT look back into the laser Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7786 alt.conspiracy:17257 alt.activism:30271 sci.skeptic:28221 misc.headlines:23029 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.po Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!torn!maccs!mcshub!physun!bunker From: bunker@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Alex Bunker) Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug2.030550.23713@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> Sender: usenet@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca Nntp-Posting-Host: physun.physics.mcmaster.ca Organization: Dept. of Physics & Astronomy, McMaster University References: <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1992 03:05:50 GMT Lines: 42 In article mitch@coriolis.UUCP (Mitch) writes: >bunker@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Alex Bunker) writes: > >> This is where I have to cut in look at the statistics in the real >> world. The USA has a murder rate 10X higher than any of the >> other democracies. IS IT really worth this "right to bear >> arms" crap? how are Germans,french,Canadians,UKers more >> opressed than Americans? They have low crime rates and >> stringent firearm laws. In what way are they any worse off >> because of this? I can think of a lot of ways they are >> BETTER off... > >How many deaths are cuase by *legal* firearms? How many would have been >caused by other means? > >Yes, I think the relative availability of weapons in this country means >more people gets shot each year. That's not a complete argument, though; >those same conservative Germans love to drive 100+ on the Autobahn, and >die in freeway accidents at even even more appalling rate than Americans >do. Is this fascination with high speeds worth the toll? I say no so? I think both guns and highway speeds should be regulated. but what does this have to do with the original argument? >Gun ownership makes some people feel more secure, prevents some crimes, >and may have some value in deterring tyranny. It also makes some people >feel less secure, allows and aggravates some crimes and accidents, and >permits acts of rebellion against the lawful government. > >Freeway driving, of course, causes far more death and destruction, and >doesn't even have a putative claim to constitutional protection. This is a complete red herring German freeway laws have *&@$^% all to do with gun laws. Tell me what real benefits americans gain from this "permission of acts of rebellion against the lawful government"? Do not side track the argument. murder with weapon rate 10X higher is it worth the price yes or no? If you say yes then frankly an malicious idiot and you are bluntly someone I wish I did not have to share my reality with. What positive things have Americans been able to do, real concrete things not hypothetical rights, that Canadians,Germans,French,UK'ers etc can not? ALEX Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a1432 From: a1432@mindlink.bc.ca (Gary D. Lee-Nova) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Don's Posting Message-ID: <13974@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 4 Aug 92 11:36:20 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Distribution: world Lines: 32 I enjoyed Don's posting left here a few days ago. I am always amazed at the amount of discussion his posts often create. This whole 'guns' discussion was precipitated by some info forwarded from Washington State (C.A.C. if memory serves) to Don Allen somehow, and then Don posts a copy onto this newsgroup. I think the 'guns' discourse and debate has gone on a bit too long. Don's post was much more entertaining for me than some of this over heated topic of late and the topic of the group is UFOs and related paraphanalia. I saw some UFOs, once. They were up to some pretty amazing tricks. None of this disc/saucer/cigar shaped stuff. These were dots of light, way out there, maybe 25,000 feet or more. Looked about as bright as first magnitude stars. What these lights were up to out there was unforgettable. There were four or five of them. They zig-zagged 90 degree turns in little staircase patterns in the sky. One would wink into view, do the zig-zag trick, & end up somewhere at the end of the pattern and then wink out. Then another, ( or two) would perform the same trick, in different directions, but always about the same distance. I watched this for about 30 minutes but I became so confounded that I got tired of watching, wondering whether or not human beings had aircraft that could do amazing tricks like this. If they did/do, I was pissed off about it being a secret. This was in 1972, in the Similkameen River Valley, in South East British Columbia. I'd seen lots of satellites go shooting across the night skies and I still do when I'm out in the wilderness. But I haven't seen those zig-zagging lights since that first sighting. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!remarque.berkeley.edu!utidjian From: utidjian@remarque.berkeley.edu (David M.V. Utidjian) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Outlaw guns? NO! Register guns! YES! (was:Re: UFO "October Surprise" Date: 4 Aug 1992 13:12:34 GMT Organization: Processed People for a Processed America Lines: 46 Message-ID: <15lvo2INNnhh@agate.berkeley.edu> References: <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> <26159@life.ai.mit.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: remarque.berkeley.edu In article <26159@life.ai.mit.edu> elwin@ai.mit.edu (Lee Campbell) writes: > [MUCH stuff by Gerry Roston and Lee Campbell deleted...] > >Well argued! However, you have completely missed the *true* debate. >The true debate is over handgun registration, manditory waiting >periods for handgun purchase, and elimination of "cop-killer" bullets. >Should we do any of these things? The NRA says "NO!" I say "YES!" to >all of them. If you, Gerry, want to enter into the real debate, then >perhaps you can argue why there should be no registration of handguns, >no waiting period to purchase them, and why we should continue to sell >copkiller bullets. Mr. Campbell could you please define what you are saying yes to? 1 What is "handgun registration" specifically? What would it accomplish? Where specifically do we need this registration? Is there anywhere in the country where we already have this registration of handguns? Has it been shown to be beneficial to these areas? (ie. reduced handgun crime rate). 2 What is a "manditory waiting period"? How long should it be? What determines how long it should be? What is the purpose of an m.w.p.? Does the m.w.p., in areas that it is required, accomplish this purpose? What laws already exist regarding manditory waiting periods, in the US, in MA? 3 What is a "cop-killer" bullet? What makes them have this property called "cop-killer"? Who makes them? Who sells them? When were they first called "cop-killer"? By whom? Has any cop been killed by a "cop-killer" bullet? 4 Do you know what the laws are regarding gun ownership in the state you are living in? If not, why not? I will thank you in advance for answering the above questions and defining your terms. Only after it is clear that we both know what we are talking about can a "*true* debate" begin. Incidentally, you better check your history on machine-guns. > - Lee Campbell David Utidjian Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11078 alt.alien.visitors:7883 sci.skeptic:28348 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Get Off John's Back Please! Message-ID: <63361@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 92 06:25:35 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul29.185219.29352@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> <45868@shamash.cdc.com> <63079@cup.portal.com> <2379@israel.nysernet.org> <63292@cup.portal.com> Lines: 10 Dear Fellow Earthians and Dwellers of the Planet Shan. At the present time my son is looking into the system called Prodigy and in this system there is a person with several questions that I may be able to answer. The questions are on a bullitin board, and these are the questions; What do you think the aliens want from us? When will they reveal themselves and does anyone have any info. Please write back soon. So those are the questions. I'll probubly be starting off with the first question in that I have just heard about a man in France who had come in contact with a space person who claims he is part of a civilization of people who originally made the human vehicle that we now use. Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.bizarre:68651 alt.alien.visitors:7884 Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!unislc!erc From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) Subject: Re: ALIEN GREETZ X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4 References: <1992Jul29.152442.7896@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1992Aug3.205510.15664@unislc.uucp> Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1992 20:55:10 GMT Lines: 18 reese@vax.oxford.ac.uk writes: : In article <1992Jul28.124019.1@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au>, edc432ysys@vx24.cc.monash.edu.au writes: : > Saalome gam naan ben uurda gan neeber asaal hesporoona : > : > HI ya! : > : > If you know what this means please contact me ! : : Salami gum not-a-number been under gun needing astral hernia. : : How's that? Well, rot13, it ain't! :) -- Ed Carp, N7EKG erc@apple.com 801/269-8125 "This is the final task I will ever give you, and it goes on forever. Act happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love, and do what you will." -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!unislc!erc From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4 References: Message-ID: <1992Aug3.210403.17035@unislc.uucp> Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1992 21:04:03 GMT Lines: 13 bernieb@cix.compulink.co.uk (Steve Browne) writes: : Hear Hear! Some of us actually have to pay for our usenet access, and then : have to pay to download it - 75% of which is absolutely of no interest to me, : coz John's mailing publicly. So? Talk to your feed site. I'm sure it would be no trouble at all to put "!alt.alien.visitors" in /usr/lib/news/sys for your site... -- Ed Carp, N7EKG erc@apple.com 801/269-8125 "This is the final task I will ever give you, and it goes on forever. Act happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love, and do what you will." -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!unislc!erc From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) Subject: Re: ALIENS JOIN FLIGHT PLAN X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4 References: <1992Aug3.003015.27247@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au> Message-ID: <1992Aug3.211314.18296@unislc.uucp> Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC Date: Mon, 3 Aug 1992 21:13:14 GMT Lines: 48 rhoge1@esk (Robin Hoge) writes: : Area 51 is notorious as a base for above-top-secret millitary : developments often fuelled by enormous, unaccounted-for CIA slush funds. Nowadays, the CIA would be lucky to be able to hide the purchase of a Mr. Coffee coffee maker in their budget, let alone the millions it would take to fund this sort of project. But the NSA, well ... : The few who get close to the craft report a distinctive loud, : pulsating noise. But as Area 51 is very heavily guarded, both by elite : federal troops and local sheriffs, near encounters are rare. I doubt that the feds would let the local cops within 10 miles of the place. The feds look on local cops as bozos. : Its power source was an anti-matter reactor using a super-heavy : element not found naturally on Earth and difficult to synthesise. These : facts convinced Lazar the ship's technology was not of this planet. I find this difficult to believe, as even a trained physicist would have trouble identifying an anti-matter reactor without taking the damned thing apart first. And identifying a "super-heavy" element without a mass spectrometer or similar equipment would be little better than a guess. : The saucers run gravity amplifiers and use gravity wazes as we : use microwaves. Again, ho do we know that? : The other day, my I heard that my mother dated some guy many years ago : in her younger years, who took her out to California desert, and showed : her big, wide metal saucers on the ground. He always said he wanted to : go with them, and one day he disappeared, and so did the saucers. It : also could have been a government cover up, you know, kill him because : he saw the saucers. Then they hide the saucers in their hangars as well. Well, I *could* tell you the *real* story behind all of this ... but then I'd have to kill you,. :) -- Ed Carp, N7EKG erc@apple.com 801/269-8125 "This is the final task I will ever give you, and it goes on forever. Act happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love, and do what you will." -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!stepsun.uni-kl.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) Subject: Re: Men In Black Message-ID: <1992Aug4.134340.6433@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Sender: news@rhrk.uni-kl.de Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany References: <139527.2A7CB8EC@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <7772@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1992 13:43:40 GMT Lines: 23 Sorry, this is not related to a.a.v. In article <7772@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU>, mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes: >In article <139527.2A7CB8EC@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes: >>BTW, what does Prometheus mean? > >Prometheus is the Titan who stole fire from heaven >and gave it to mankind, for which he is chained >and tortured by Zeus. His punishment is either >rolling a boulder uphill everyday (it rolls back down >each night), or he is chained to a rock and birds >of prey eat his entrails. (I think the latter, but >I'm not certain.) It's the latter. The former was Sisyphos' punishment for playing tricks on Thanatos (Death). Prometheus was chained to the Caucasus. Much later, Herakles freed him in exchange for some info about apples. -- --------------thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany--------------- Definition: Idiot-proof - you are idiot-proof when you flame NOBODY. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7888 alt.conspiracy:17367 alt.activism:30509 sci.skeptic:28352 misc.headlines:23146 alt.politics.bush:1272 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!caen!destroyer!news.iastate.edu!IASTATE.EDU!danwell From: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock) Subject: Re: Guns and Skeptics Message-ID: <1992Aug4.091110@IASTATE.EDU> Sender: news@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System) Reply-To: danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock) Organization: Iowa State University References: <1992Jul31.212244.20376@acd4.acd.com> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1992 14:11:10 GMT Lines: 55 In article , gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) writes: > Too many people have been brainwashed into believing that guns are bad > and that guns cause crime. This simply isn't true. Well, guns may not be bad but people are stupid. My understanding is that the preponderance of gun mortality (in the US) results from people blowing themselves or others up through careless handling of guns. Saying guns cause crime is stupid. Saying guns can protect you from crime, or oppression, is equally stupid. Let's take your Tian-an-men square example and contrast it with whats going on in Serbia and Bosnia. Lot-o-guns there: in the hands of recently officialized citizen millitia. So your idea that guns have any relation to freedom from opression, mayhem, etc. is just as bogus as the assumption they cause it. Likewise I would be surprised if gun ownership had much relation to crime victimization. The primary way to figure your odds of being the victim of crime is to asses the local economy. If there are poor folks around, your odds go up. The guns are pretty dammned irrelevant. There are counter examples like the town in Florida that made gun ownership an all-but-civic-duty, and prevented the south Florida crime spree from entering their town. Big whoop. They still have a lot of problems related to the effects of the crime spree on the reigional economy and politics. Personally I support the right of damnfools to kill themselves and their children with guns they don't need, just as I support the right of responsible gun owners to skeet shoot, hunt, or just take deep pleasure in seeing a well crafted machine through the plexiglass window on their locked gun cabinet. I hate big brother as much as Gerry. The idea that anything other than informed, well educated citizens acting on behalf of the common good can protect freedom is silly. Guns don't protect freedom. People do. When you need a gun to protect yourself you've already lost a great deal of freedom. I live in Ames Iowa. I don't own and have never needed a gun of any sort. I may one day take up target shooting (after I finish learning archery). I managed to protect _my_ freedom by living in an area where the people are foresquare for law-and-order and freedom. There is also a notable lack of poor people without hope. There are good schools, open to all. This cultural commitment to economic opprotunity and political freedom is a far more reliable gaurdian for my freedom than a gun. > [The above comments also apply to governments as they too wish to take > that which is ours and keep it for themselves.] Govenment of, by, and for the people will do it. Guns only might and the body count would be remarkable. For that matter, shooting at an opressive government is stupid. I can make time bombs in my garage; these are much better weapons against opression than guns. > Gerry Roston (gerry@cmu.edu) | What is it the Bible teaches us? - rapine, Dan Danwell@IASTATE.EDU Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!torn!cunews!nbkanata!nexus!robc From: robc@Newbridge.COM (Rob Craig) Subject: Re: Orgone Energy Message-ID: <1992Aug4.142508.2506@Newbridge.COM> Sender: usenet@Newbridge.COM (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: fauve Organization: Newbridge Networks Corporation References: <13905@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1992 14:25:08 GMT Lines: 91 In article 13905@mindlink.bc.ca, Raymond_Shaw@mindlink.bc.ca (Raymond Shaw) writes: >> Mark-Tarbell@suite.com writes: >> >> My Digital Webster dictionary defines "orgone energy" as: >> >> or gone \'o (e)r-,go n\ n >> [prob. fr. orgasm + -one (as in hormone)] >> (1942) >> :a vital energy held to pervade nature and to be made available for use by >> the human body by sitting in a specially designed box >> >> Okay, I give. What's the story here? > > >Hello Mark, > > If you're really interested in this subject, I suggest you read some of >Wilhelm Reich's books. Reich was responsible for the "theory" of orgone energy >and the development of the "orgone accumulator" -- the "box" to which you >refer. > An interesting note to this subject is the fact that Reich was a >contemporary of Freud, but branched out into his own line of investigation >which led to his discovery of orgone energy. Well, he branched out not just from Freud, but from the scientific community in general. When he found his ideas were not being accepted as he felt they should be, he decided to continue on his own. He carried out research, but did not publish in peer-reviewed journals. His later works were extensions of his earlier work, but without the benefit of others' criticism. >He developed a box which had the >ability to "collect and trap" orgone energy. He found that when people were >exposed to the energy, they experienced increased vitality. He subsquently >began using it in his practice (he was a psychiatrist). He eventually ended up >in the USA where he started to distribute various sizes of orgone accumulators >until the FDA decided they contravened American law and Reich was then >imprisoned where he died shortly thereafter. One of the uses of the orgone accumulators was the treatment of cancer. I beleive it was on this point that the FDA acted; I'm a little shaky on the details (and don't have a reference handy). They didn't throw him in jail due to the orgone accumlators directly; he refused to appear in court (as I recall), since he didn't feel he had to justify his actions to the FDA. >All the orgone accumlators in the >USA were "rounded up" and destroyed, even though many people had experienced >extraordinary cures to various diseases, including cancer. In his will, Reich >left instructions that his writings be held back from the general public for 50 >years. Reich died in 1957. I hadn't heard the part about the request in his will before, do you have a reference for that? (I don't mean this as a challenge...but I would like to find out the source of the information). > Among his books in print, there is one which is a compilation of his >various works (I found this one in my local library, sorry I can't remember the >title) in which details are given on how to build your own orgone accumlator. There are several books by others about Wilhelm Reich as well, but as I said earlier, I don't have any of my references. I have tried (briefly) to recreate a small orgone accumulator (apparently the orgone energy becomes visible after it has accumulated for a while) with no success...I hope to try to re-create his experiment more exactly at some point. It should also be mentioned that near the end his 'research' was flakey at best, he was using a modified orgone accumulator (more of an orgone gun) to affect the weather, and later to affect the UFOs that were becoming more frequent over his place of research. There were also problems with negative orgone (DOR as I recall - Deadly ORgone?). > Hope this helps. > > Raymond Shaw. Rob. Disclaimer: I said it, so if there's any flaming to be done, flame me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Rob Craig Internet: robc@newbridge.com BBS: (613) 236-4823 FidoNet: 1:163/123 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "Q: do cells have 'free will'? If not, how can free will be a characteristic of a being composed of cells, such as ourselves?" - Stephen Dekorte ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!str-ccsun!strath-cs!ex-dcs!paul2 From: paul2@dcs.exeter.ac.uk (Paul Day) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Gun Control crap Message-ID: <6489@izar.dcs.exeter.ac.uk> Date: 4 Aug 92 12:14:12 GMT Organization: Computer Science Dept. - University of Exeter. UK Lines: 25 PLEASE take the discussion on Gun Control & Crime somewhere else. This is alt.ALIEN.visitors, not misc.gun.control.&.crime, and I for one, don't want to wade through zillions of tedious messages which have no relevance to us here `over the pond'. At the very least can you make sure that the distribution is restricted to the USA - the issues you are discussing just are not relevant to us here in England, where it is VERY hard to get a gun licence, and where guns have to be locked up etc etc. Sorry about this - I am not trying to be net.police, its just that I read alt.alien.visitors for all the wierd & wacky stuff that gets posted there ! I ENJOYED reading `October Suprise', even though I had to log into nyx to do it because Don Allen made that posting US only. Pinch of salt ....I think you need a SACK of salt! P. -- = Paul Day, Centre for Connection Science, Computer Science Dept, = = University of Exeter, Exeter, Devon, England. = = BITNET: paul2@dcs.exeter.ac.uk | JANET: paul2@dcs.exeter.ac.uk = ========= I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, you can't prove anything ======= Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!ukma!widener!dsinc!ub!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ALIENS JOIN FLIGHT PLAN Message-ID: Date: 4 Aug 92 14:49:58 GMT References: <1992Aug3.003015.27247@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au> <1992Aug3.211314.18296@unislc.uucp> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 27 (erc@apple.com) Ed Carp, N7EKG Nowadays, the CIA would be lucky to be able to hide the purchase of a Mr. Coffee coffee maker in their budget, let alone the millions it would take to fund this sort of project. ... this is a commonly-held idea, but I don't think it really holds water. That projects get leaked in politically useful (to the leaker) cases does not mean that all projects get leaked. There is still a lot of unpublicly-accounted-for money in the CIA budget (a lot of it for things like satellites, TR-1's, probably this "Arora" thing, etc.). But the NSA, well ... Quite so. There are also secret funds for the USAF, Navy, etc. etc. I find this difficult to believe, as even a trained physicist would have trouble identifying an anti-matter reactor without taking the damned thing apart first. And identifying a "super-heavy" element without a mass spectrometer or similar equipment would be little better than a guess. ... well, Bob Lazar claims to have seen the X-Ray spectograph of the "element 115" in his interview with Billy Goodman. Charles Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7892 alt.conspiracy:17370 alt.activism:30514 sci.skeptic:28360 misc.headlines:23148 alt.politics.bush:1283 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!utcsri!torn!maccs!mcshub!physun!bunker From: bunker@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Alex Bunker) Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug4.150515.9392@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> Sender: usenet@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca Nntp-Posting-Host: physun.physics.mcmaster.ca Organization: Dept. of Physics & Astronomy, McMaster University References: <1992Aug1.073525.15555@hubcap.clemson.edu> <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1992 15:05:15 GMT Lines: 110 In article wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) writes: >bunker@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Alex Bunker) writes: > >>This is where I have to cut in look at the statistics in the real >>world. The USA has a murder rate 10X higher than any of the >>other democracies. IS IT really worth this "right to bear >>arms" crap? how are Germans,french,Canadians,UKers more >>opressed than Americans? They have low crime rates and >>stringent firearm laws. In what way are they any worse off >>because of this? I can think of a lot of ways they are >>BETTER off... >>ALEX > > I don't intend to start or overly fuel a political argument >on guns in this newsgroup, but I will answer your question. > > If you take away guns from law-abiding citizens, then only >cops and crooks will have guns. Gun control laws will have virtually >NO effect on true criminals. The net effect will be to render the >majority of the citizenry incapable of defending their homes against >gun-toting crooks. The cops don't STOP criminals, in general. They >only arrest them AFTER the crime has already been committed. If you >happen to be the one who gets shot by said crook, that isn't >much comfort, is it? > > The concept of the US population being unable to defend themselves >against the cops is also, IMHO, a recipe for repression. As corrupt >as out politicians are already, the concept of them knowing that we >would be unable to do anything about *whatever* they'd decide to do >bothers me greatly. This sounds great in theory but in practice it does not wrok that way. The US does not have that free and open political system compared to some countries with gun regulations. IS there political repression today in germany,Canada,UK,France etc... Just a greater Ideological choice among candidates. > I'm NOT an NRA member. I don't stand with the NRA in all >their arguments because they refuse to budge an inch. Their refusal >to give in on a waiting peiod for gun purchases is, again IMHO, >rather stupid and childish. > > But I *do* believe that if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will >have guns. (be they crooks or politicians) > > If guns could not be used to commit crimes, what makes >ANYONE think that knives, clubs, cars etc. would not suffice? > > In emotional cases like the guy in California who shot a bunch >of school kids - if he didn't have a gun, could he not have stabbed >a bunch of them? Run them down with a car? Beat several to death? No but it is much easier with a gun. All other weapons require a bit more contemplation etc.. > I don't hear anyone trying to ban kitchen knives, cars and >baseball bats because they are too dangerous. > > As for the european countries being crime free, let me point >something out to you - they STILL have prisons. The prisons STILL >have prisoners. And take a look at where acts of terrorism are >actually done - in the US? Not really. In Europe? Yep. How many >terrorist attacks occur, let's say in US airports? How many have >you read about in European airports? > > The lion always preys on the sheep, NOT on the other lions. >The US is an armed camp. WE, the US population, being armed, >just may be our best continued defense against the terrorist >swine. Only a suicide squad would bother...... > > Would YOU want to attack 100 million guns? NOW THIS is highly silly!!! Terrorism was a fleeting phenomenon of mostly the late 70's and early 80's that resulted in a few splashy headlines for tabloids. Fewer people have died as a result of terrorism in the last 30 years in europe than probably are murdered in a MONTH in the average american city. America has not had terrorism because they are not bordering communist countries to hide arm and finance them (The German RAF) and America is in general further away more isolated, difficult to get to and ,hey why bother going there when you can pick off bunches of them much closer in their airline stops in Europe. Also there is terrorism in the US but your media subdues its coverage. (mostly Puertorican leftists) > Does Canada have a low crime rate? Could be - what is the total >population of Canada - isn't it about the same as California? >What is the crime rate in the crowded urban areas of Canada? The >fewer people you have, the less opportunity for crime you have. Lower per capita ad its rise is directly correlated to guns being smuggled in from the US > The US murder rate *is* high. No question about it. Where >do those murders mostly occur? Big cities, perhaps? How many of >them are related to the illegal drug trade or to organized crime >of some fashion? And what percentage of the total US population >is actually involved in these crimes? 5 percent? 2 percent? >1 percent? Less than one percent? Then why punish a whole population >for the crimes committed by a small fraction? > > I continue to stand for the American population being allowed >many freedoms, INCLUDING the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. But what great thing has this freedom given them? HOW ARE THEY ANY SAFER THAN FRENCH GERMANS OR CANADIANS BECAUSE OF THIS??? YOU STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED THIS QUESTION?!?!?!?!?! >Duane ALEX Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7893 alt.conspiracy:17371 alt.activism:30516 sci.skeptic:28361 misc.headlines:23149 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush.talk.politics.guns Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!lmpsbbs!markr From: markr@mot.com (Mark) Subject: Re: A racist argument against handgun control legislation. Reply-To: markr@mcil.comm.mot.com Organization: MCIL Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1992 12:40:14 GMT Message-ID: <1992Aug4.124014.15095@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> References: <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> <1992Aug2.114512.22853@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> <1992Aug2.162931.26755@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> Sender: news@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com (Net News) Nntp-Posting-Host: 145.9.14.26 Lines: 56 In article <1992Aug2.162931.26755@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> bunker@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Alex Bunker) writes: >In article <1992Aug2.114512.22853@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> markr@mcil.comm.mot.com writes: >>First of all, The question was why shouldn't LAW-ABIDING people own weapons. >>Law-Abiding people don't murder people. (by definition) >> >>Second of all, how do you know that US crime is due to Law-abiding people >>owning weapons ? Perhaps the low crime rates in European countries are >>due to the homogeneity (sp?) of their populace ? Why does Switzerland have >>such a low crime rate and such a high rate of ownership of weapons ? Why >>do certain countries have huge murder rates and almost no private ownership >>of weapons ? (South Africa, Peru, etc..) >> >>Mark > >OK mr racist I can read between your hate filled lines. "Homogeneity >of their populace" read = not too many murderous {insert foul ethnic >slur referring to black and hispanic people}. Canada is FAR more >ethnically diverse and has a murder rate less than the average >large american city. Goddamn liberal. I neither said nor meant anything racist, it is simply a fact that many of the European countries are much older and have much more homogeneous populations than the US, nor did I say anything at all about ethnicity. As a matter of fact, my point is, Why should law-abiding people not be allowed to own weapons ? > second point. having lived for a while in Switzerland let >me tell you about gun ownership there. The ONLY gun Swiss people >are allowed to own is their very large bulky Military rifle >that remains DISASSEMBLED in their closed ready for the day >the French, Germans, Austrians, or Italians invade (Yes they >find this funny too!). Hardly a concealable weapon. I spent three summers in Switzerland, and I have observed a completely different attitude on the part of the Swiss than you have. Most Swiss take their weapons very seriously. A large percentage of the people (at least the men) I met, own an automatic assault rifle AND a handgun. Every weekend, the ranges are *full*, and I mean *full*, of people practicing. (Most of my time was spent in the Bernese Oberland region, I don't know exactly what the attitudes are in the other cantons, but I didn't notice any differences on this particular issue) > Citing SA and Peru is an unfair comparison. No America does not >have the killing rate of Nagorno-Carabach,Transdnester, or >Bosnia-Herzegovina right now either BIG DEAL! I am comparing the >US to countries where all other things are more or less equal >except gun control laws. The problem with that comparison, is that there aren't many countries which things are more of less equal. Mark Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11080 alt.alien.visitors:7894 sci.skeptic:28362 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU!Xenon.Stanford.EDU!amorgan From: amorgan@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Crunchy Frog) Subject: Re: Get Off John's Back Please! Message-ID: <1992Aug4.155501.9315@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University. References: <63292@cup.portal.com> <63361@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1992 15:55:01 GMT Lines: 26 In article <63361@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Fellow Earthians and Dwellers of the Planet Shan. At the present >time my son is looking into the system called Prodigy and in this system >there is a person with several questions that I may be able to answer. Cool, this is just like Jeopardy! >The questions are on a bullitin board, and these are the questions; I'm ready Alex. I'll take New Age Loonies for 200.... >What do you think the aliens want from us? Oooh. Toughie. I think they want to help humanity enter a new dimension of love and harmony and get in resonance with the entire universe. Am I close? >I have just heard about a man in France who had come in contact with >a space person who claims he is part of a civilization of people who >originally made the human vehicle that we now use. They invented RollerBlades????????? Now *this* is intense. C "Yow! Aliens from New York are in my underwear" Frog Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7895 alt.conspiracy:17374 alt.activism:30519 sci.skeptic:28364 misc.headlines:23152 alt.politics.bush:1285 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!ogicse!das-news.harvard.edu!cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!netnews.srv.cs.cmu.edu!gerry From: gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Subject: Re: guns and criminals Message-ID: Date: 4 Aug 92 16:44:25 GMT Article-I.D.: onion.GERRY.92Aug4114425 References: <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> <1992Aug4.015333.21023@s1.gov> Reply-To: gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) Organization: Field Robotics Center, CMU Lines: 102 Nntp-Posting-Host: onion.frc.ri.cmu.edu In-Reply-To: lip@s1.gov's message of 4 Aug 92 01:53:33 GMT Sorry to keep this thread alive, but.. Permits for buying ammunition: There used to be laws that required keeping track of who bought ammunition. It was costly and it NEVER ONCE helped law enforcement agencies solve a crime. This is a shining example of government at its best... a useless law was removed from the books. Also, what do you do about folks like me who reload our own ammo? Defense vs offense: Stupid line of reasoning. Do you really want to wear a flak jacket? They are quite heavy and uncomfortable. Furthermore, they only provide some small amount of protection. Also, a flak jacket is NOT a bullet-proof vest, they are two different things. A flak jacket is a bullet proof vest with steel plates inserted. Licensing guns: See my earlier post on out threat to freedom should this be implemented. The only viable solution I see to the gun licensing/training issue is this: every citizen (and permenent residents) of this country should be trained in the safe handling of firearms. Before y'all scream, this would take only a few hours and could be done in high school at a very small cost to the community. By doing this, we eliminate the need for licensing and the threat of the government's seizing guns from owners. I also suspect that this would reduce crime [see below] and reduce accidents. Do to an increased emphasis on gun safety, the number of accidental gun deaths has been steadily decreasing over the last 50 years. In 1988 there were 1400 gun related accidental deaths. (Compare this to 48,700 car accidents, 11,300 falling deaths, 5,300 drownings, 4,800 fire related deaths, 4,400 poisonings and 3,200 chokings.) In 1987, guns deaths were 5.74 per million, down from 24.03 per million in 1932. About the theory that guns cause crime: If you look at the number of homicides committed in the US over the period from 1915 until 1988, the years with the lowest homicide rates were in the late 1940's, when returnign veterans brought a unprecedented number of guns into the country. You will also find a dramatic uprise in homicides immediately following the enactment of the 1968 Gun Control Act. Some people seem to go ballistic when the subject of children and guns comes up. In 1985, 27,607 children (up to age 18) died in the US. Of these, 11,927 died in all accidents (429 from guns) and an additional 208 were murdered. Compare this to 6,639 motor vehicle deaths, 1,613 drownings, 1,249 fire, 1,445 other. Again, the evidence shows that guns are not a major contributer to the number of child deaths. You will also find that the US is not as violent (in certain respects) as our "peace-loving" European neighbors. For instance, the rape rate per 100,000 in The Unites States at 26.30 and is below such countries as Australia (90.82), West Germany (77.49), New Zealand (65.73), Netherlands (56.00), Scotland (44.69), Denmark (41.06), Sweden (40.52) and Austria (30.42). Finally, (I misremember the dates f this anecdote, but the evidence come from _Armed and Female_ by Paxtom Quigley): In Tampa Fl in the 1960 (?), the police decided to have a gun safety program for women. They expected several hundred attendees. Several thousand showed up. They rescheduled the event and the training was well publicized. The crime rate in the ensuing months dropped significantly. A final plea: This bboard is supposed to be for people who are skeptical, i.e., question urban legends (guns=crime) unless evidence is brought forth. The vast preponderance of the evidence suggests that guns != crime and that in certain circumstances, guns (or the belief that guns are present) actually serves to diminish crime. I would urge all future posters to PLEASE find statistical evidence before they post. My sources for the above statistics are: BOC75 - U.S. Bureau of the Census, Historical Statistics of the United States, Colonial Times to 1970, Bicentennial Edition, Part 2, Washington, DC, 1975. BOC83 - U.S. Bureau of the Census, Statistical Abstract of the United States: 1982-83. (103th edition.) Washington, DC, 1982 [sic].. BOC89 - U.S. Bureau of the Census, Statistical Abstract of the United States: 1989 (109th edition.) Washington, DC, 1989. UCR85 - U.S. Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Uniform Crime Reports 1985. UCR87 - U.S. Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Uniform Crime Reports 1987. -- Gerry Roston (gerry@cmu.edu) | [the most perfect form of popular Field Robotics Center, | government is that] where the least injury Carnegie Mellon University | done to meanest individual, is considered Pittsburgh, PA, 15213 | as an insult on the whole constitution. (412) 268-3856 | Solon | The opinions expressed are mine | and do not reflect the official | position of CMU, FRC, RedZone, | or any other organization. | Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!mips!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!boulder!ucsu!cubldr.colorado.edu!crago_l From: crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Abduction claims Message-ID: <1992Aug4.102026.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Date: 4 Aug 92 17:20:26 GMT References: <1992Jul31.150918.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> <1992Aug1.020831.16024@news2.cis.umn.edu> Sender: news@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Lines: 41 Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu In article , nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: > crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes: >> >>This blade cuts precisely both ways. Just because somebody *disclaims* that >>something happened doesn't mean that it did not, and sincerity is (still) >>irrelevant to whether the disclaimer is true or not: all it means is that >>the person *disbelieves*. It may or may not be true that anybody can >>hallucinate; it is indeed true that anybody can be subject to a state of >>denial, especially if the material threatens their entrenched belief system. > > Wrongo. > > The burden of proof is on the person making the *positive* assertion. > I am under no obligation to attempt to prove a negative. You can't default > to assuming all non-disproven claims are true, since it's easy to posit > mutually contradictory non-disproven claims. > > ---peter >> The point is being missed here -- the discussion is not about *proof* because obviously am ephemeral event such as was described cannot be subjected to controlled methods. What is at issue is the apparent belief by *debunkers* that if *they* announce a thing is untrue, then that is the definitive statement. I turned Skeptic's statements around to show how silly it sounds to make such non-substantiated pronouncements. If someone claims to be logical, let alone scientific, let alone some manner of spokesperson (not for a group but for a *stance*) then we have the right to demand mental clarity and, even more important, intellectual integrity. When a person jumps immediately in with a pronouncement -- without thoughtful consideration of pertinent evidence both pro and con -- then what we are seeing is not so much an exercise of judgement as an exhibition of ego. That's not a hanging offense, by the way -- lots of it going around. But given the problematic state of getting primary data in this particular field, and the overwhelming contamination of information, it's not helpful for getting to the truth. Lou > > Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7897 alt.conspiracy:17382 alt.activism:30535 sci.skeptic:28375 misc.headlines:23163 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush.talk.politics.guns Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: Gun Control, Crime Control, Crime Rate, NRA, Armed Citizens. Message-ID: <1992Aug4.142615.8238@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1992 14:26:15 GMT Lines: 17 Stop it! STOP IT! Stop It! StOp It! Stop it! STOP IT! Stop It! StOp It! Stop it! STOP IT! Stop It! StOp It! Stop it! STOP IT! Stop It! StOp It! Stop it! STOP IT! Stop It! StOp It! Stop it! STOP IT! Stop It! StOp It! Stop it! STOP IT! Stop It! StOp It! I am truly sorry I ever mentioned ANYTHING about guns, about criminals and /or crime rate!!!!!! Everybody back to your corners and come out slinging ALIENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please. Gregg. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7898 alt.conspiracy:17383 alt.activism:30536 sci.skeptic:28376 misc.headlines:23164 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush.talk.politics.guns Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: A racist argument against handgun control legislation. Message-ID: <1992Aug4.150630.8392@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1992 15:06:30 GMT Lines: 17 A word about John Winston. My only post about John Winston. My last post about John Winston. I don't mind John's "STUFF" in the area. What I do mind is all the talk about "JW this and JW that and JW shouldn't and JW should". Please! Lets refrain from talking about John, unless, of course, he is an alien. This, I admit, is possible. However, its not that big of a deal if he puts stuff in here. The big deal is when 20 other people start posting "Bad John" messages. This creates 10 times the off topic messages than John ever writes. Now, back to the subject. Gregg. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7899 alt.conspiracy:17386 alt.activism:30540 sci.skeptic:28380 misc.headlines:23167 alt.politics.bush:1305 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: guns and criminals Message-ID: <1992Aug4.160100.8670@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1992 16:01:00 GMT Lines: 6 Leonard, please read replies in talk.politics.guns. I will post all replies over there. I suggest everyone do this that is involved with freedom/guns/crime discussion. Gregg. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7900 alt.conspiracy:17387 alt.activism:30541 sci.skeptic:28381 misc.headlines:23168 alt.politics.bush:1306 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: guns and criminals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1992Aug4.162451.8931@acd4.acd.com> To: vinsci@nic.funet.fi Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <1992Jul31.212244.20376@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug1.041842.19761@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> <1992Aug1.073525.15555@hubcap.clemson.edu> <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1992 16:24:51 GMT Lines: 158 In article you write: >In article gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) writes: >> When you look at statistics related to crime, etc, you will find the >> following: >> 1-The US does have a slightly higher murder rate than other countries, >> although it is typically ranked between 5 and 10 on the list of >> countries with the highest murder rates. >> 2-If you remove from the statistics the large US urban regions of NYC, >> Washington DC, Detroit, you will find that the crime rate in the US is >> LOWER than many other countries in the world. > >Right, remove the top crime locations and, surprise, surprise, your >crime rate is suddenly better. To be fair, you should also remove the >corresponding areas from the countries you're comparing with. I >expect that you'll find then that your position on the list hasn't >changed. You missed the point. The point is the TOP crime areas have GUNS outlawed for ANYBODY to possess. This is an almost laughable statistic. Its true but it just makes me He-Haw when I think of it. All you anti-gunners just take a look. This statistic make you look like a bunch or real idiots. Even *GUN* crimes are high in these areas. Get a clue people. GUNS+PEOPLE<>CRIME rather PEOPLE-GUNS=(MORE CRIME) and PEOPLE-GUNS=(MORE OPPRESSIVE GOVERNMENT) > >> 3-The above mentioned cities >> -have the most restricitve gun control laws in the country >> -have some of the worst "ghetto" neighborhoods >> >> CONCLUSION: Guns are not the cause of crime. There is absolutely NO >> evidence to even suggest a connection between gun ownership and crime. >> The problems in our country are economic problems. > >Of course not, but *when* a *criminal* carries a gun, he's also more >likely to use it in a stress situation. And I think the criminal is >then also very likely to use the gun in a way that law forbids. > So you'll probably think that this means that there's no reason to >outlaw guns for non-criminal persons. To see why it is a good idea to >make it harder for non-criminals to get guns, you'll have to think of >what the criminal was before he went criminal: he was a non-criminal >of course, and if he planned his crime, he probably had no problem >getting a gun since all records showed he hasn't commited any crimes. >The problem is that the records doen't show what plans he really has >for the gun. GOTCHA!! Study the statistics a little more and you will find that almost ALL crimes where the criminal posses a firearm: A) The firearm was obtained illegally, usually black market. This is in over 90% of the crimes we are discussing. B) The criminal had committed crimes and been previously convicted. This is in over 50% of the crimes we are discussing. > >> Consider the maxim: If guns are outlawed, ony outlaws will have guns. > >And the police, and the military. Yeah. I certainly trust the police to be there in the time that it takes for a rapist to put a knife (or gun) to my wife's throat, or beat my kids to death as they sleep, or rob my home after they knife me to death or steal my car as I watch helplessly. > >> However, all of this misses the main issue: >> A well-regulated militia, being necessary for a free state, the right >> of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. >> >> What does this mean and why was it written? >> The confusing clause is the first due to changes in Enlish usage since >> the latter part of the 18th century. Well regulated meant well >> equipped, not regulated as by the government. According to US civil >> code, ALL males between 18 and 45 are part of the militia. > >The freedom of the state is hardly provided by individuals wearing >guns anymore, but by the military. By the military? Don't recall any military intervention when 7 white boys decided to rob the corner drugstore and gang rape the cashier. That appears to me to be a slight breach of the cashier's freedom. Not only that, the whole idea of a well regulated militia is to ward off an armed rape of the people by the *the* military. If you think this is false, how come anytime there is a revolution in some oppressed third world country, they start buying guns? What are we supposed to use if we don't have any guns? Strong language? Legislation? I am sure you could stand in front of an advancing army and quote the entire constitution and they would shoot you just the same. Fact is, the first thing a repressive (opressive?) government does is get all the guns out of the people's hands. Makes the herd a lot easier to corral. I don't like corrals. > >> This amendment was written because >> -the founding fathers realized that the RKBA is a natural right, as is >> the freedom of speech. The 1st and 2nd amendments do't grant rights, >> but prevent rights from being revoked. >> -to protect the people against the tyranny of their own government. >> Having lived under British domination, the FF were very wary of >> governmental abuse, and this amendment was written to ensure the >> people had the means by which to revolt. > >Let me see you revolt against the US army with handguns. I can barely >wait. Oh, yeah? Ask the Russians about Afgahnistan. Just a few villagers with AK47s and other assorted firearms and weapons. Its not the weapons or the numbers but its the balance. In an armed society, the government WILL think twice before engaging the military. Kinda like the difference between herding sheep and bears. Dem bars, dey gots claws! Sure, you can do it, it just takes a lot more effort. I prefer to be a bear. > >> Many people who question the ownership of guns look at Europe and say, >> "Hey, their crime rate is lower!" But consider the history of Europe >> over the last 200 years... Need I say more? > >Maybe *you* can live in history, but I prefer to live today, in a >country without lots of unnecessary weapons. Thats really funny. We won't need weapons until we need them. Yeah, like, lets not think ahead. I am sure thats fine for you but I prefer to secure my future a little more than that. If we use this line of thought I would never hold a job for more than a day. Just work enough to buy supper and quit. > > >> -- >> Gerry Roston (gerry@cmu.edu) | What is it the Bible teaches us? - rapine, > >Greetings from happy Finland, > >-- Leonard Leonard, please use a little more content in your messages. You are too easy of a target. I spent all my time typing instead of thinking. You also need to read all of the statistics before you start into something like this. Oh, and flamers: You better turn it on high! I've got plenty more where that came from! Personally, I think the issue is pretty cut and dried. Gregg. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7901 sci.skeptic:28382 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: Men In Black Message-ID: <1992Aug4.163809.9042@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <1992Aug2.061201.17013@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca> <1992Aug3.152425.2585@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug3.180741.29300@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1992 16:38:09 GMT Lines: 47 In article <1992Aug3.180741.29300@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes: >In article <1992Aug3.152425.2585@acd4.acd.com>, gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes in part: >|> No, they can really be classified as kidnapping. In most cases the people are >|> returned to their dwellings unharmed. There is no prolonged "ride" in a >|> UFO. Only a breif visit and (sometimes) a physical exam. >This is an idiotical legal analysis. Your theory is a misstatement >of the law of kidnapping. ASK A LAWYER. In any case, there are lots >of other possible criminal violations that could also be considered: > >-illegal entry. >-practising medicine without a license. >-performing medical/and or experimental procedures without proper >informed consent. >-battery ("unpermitted touching"). >-bodily and/or mental damages. >-in some cases, maybe rape or sexual assault. >-in the case of minors, child abuse, etc. > >In times of war, these are called atrocities. They not only >violate local laws, they violate the Nuremburg and Helsinki >accords on human rights. ASK A LAWYER. > >Anyone with evidence of crimes such as these, ESPECIALLY if >children are involved, has a responsibility and a duty to report >them to the police. Discussing them in books and on talk shows >is NOT sufficient response to such horrible crimes. ASK A LAWYER. > >The real reason why these cases are not brought to the attention >of the police is that, as you point out, the "evidence" is too >shaky to hold much chance of even confirming the supposed crime, >let alone capturing the alleged culprits, or protecting the >claimed victim. > >And, of course, you cold get unlucky and get a skeptical prosecutor >and face charges of filing a false police report. > >-- > Robert E. McGrath > Urbana Illinois > mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Ouch! I stand quite corrected. You could have been a little more gentle. Gregg. Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11082 alt.alien.visitors:7902 sci.skeptic:28385 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!olivea!news.bbn.com!ingria From: ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Back Please!) Message-ID: Date: 4 Aug 92 18:30:01 GMT References: <1992Jul29.185219.29352@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> <45868@shamash.cdc.com> <63079@cup.portal.com> <2379@israel.nysernet.org> <63292@cup.portal.com> <63361@cup.portal.com> Reply-To: ingria@BBN.COM Lines: 11 NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com In-reply-to: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com's message of 4 Aug 92 13:25:35 GMT In article <63361@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: I have just heard about a man in France who had come in contact with a space person who claims he is part of a civilization of people who originally made the human vehicle that we now use. You mean the aliens invented Trabi's and Yugo's? Hah, then no doubt about it, their intentions are hostile! -30- Bob Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!angus From: angus@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Andrew Michael Vebber) Subject: Re: Outlaw guns from Aliens? Message-ID: <1992Aug4.183305.12587@uwm.edu> Keywords: Aliens, Guns Sender: news@uwm.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Computing Services Division, University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee References: <26159@life.ai.mit.edu> <15lvo2INNnhh@agate.berkeley.edu> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1992 18:33:05 GMT Lines: 11 Should Aliens from Outer Space have the right to bear arms? Are covered under the second amendment? You tell me! - JLW -- | angus@csd4.csd.uwm.edu | University of Wisconsin Milwaukee | |----------------------------|----------------------------------------| | "If the answer is Jerry Brown, then it is a awfully silly question. | Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!edcastle!fofp From: fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien descriptions, why the greys?? Message-ID: <24510@castle.ed.ac.uk> Date: 4 Aug 92 18:30:42 GMT References: <1992Aug2.213702.7219@nmsu.edu> Organization: Edinburgh University Lines: 26 rscott@spock.NMSU.Edu (Joseph Good) writes: >One theory that has been going around for quite a while is our facination with >'grey' type aliens is due to the movie "Close Encounters". I haven't paid much >attention to this at all, and I'm sure the flames will be thrown my way in just >a few minutes, so.. flame on. >With the publicity the movie got, it wouldn't be that far fetched to try and >link the vast amount of 'grey' abduction and sightings to the movie. I'm sure >that it has been said the movie was made to look like 'greys', and in that >case.. cool. Well, some of us will be old enough to remember that the original version of Close Encounters didn't show the aliens/inside of the spacecraft. (Well, ok, you could see them through the light/mist, but there were no details.) So the question is: were there reports of Greys between the release of the first version and the extended edition? >But, consider the popularity of the Alien series. Why have there been no >claimed sightings of any creatures similar to these things? If you saw one, you didn't survive to report it? >Joseph Good FoFP Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7905 alt.conspiracy:17391 alt.activism:30547 sci.skeptic:28387 misc.headlines:23171 alt.politics.bush:1313 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!ames!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!csa3.lbl.gov!sichase From: sichase@csa3.lbl.gov (SCOTT I CHASE) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Date: 4 Aug 92 19:41:12 GMT Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA Lines: 24 Distribution: na Message-ID: <25208@dog.ee.lbl.gov> References: <1992Aug1.041842.19761@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> <25168@dog.ee.lbl.gov> Reply-To: sichase@csa3.lbl.gov NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.198 News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4 In article , payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes... > >And you may end up in court, and be found guilty of using excessive >force, etc... While you may have an obligation, the laws do not clearly >grant you and rights in this matter. True enough. But there are certain times when the law is irrelevant. If me or my family were being attacked, I would surely shoot now and deal with the other consequences later. I would have to rely on a jury which understood my situation. I have been told by a close friend who is a lawyer, that if you shoot someone in your home there is very little chance of you suffering legal consequences. Of course, if you have shot someone in the back, it is always a good idea to turn them over and shoot them again in the chest... -Scott -------------------- Scott I. Chase "The question seems to be of such a character SICHASE@CSA2.LBL.GOV that if I should come to life after my death and some mathematician were to tell me that it had been definitely settled, I think I would immediately drop dead again." - Vandiver Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!mips!sdd.hp.com!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ukma!news From: uk09365@nx20.mik.uky.edu (robert i kesten) Subject: Re: Gun Control, Crime Control, Crime Rate, NRA, Armed Citizens. References: <1992Aug4.142615.8238@acd4.acd.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: nx20.mik.uky.edu Message-ID: <1992Aug4.184658.6428@ms.uky.edu> Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences Sender: news@ms.uky.edu (USENET News System) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1992 18:46:58 GMT Lines: 32 In article <1992Aug4.142615.8238@acd4.acd.com> gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes: > Stop it! STOP IT! Stop It! StOp It! > Stop it! STOP IT! Stop It! StOp It! > Stop it! STOP IT! Stop It! StOp It! > Stop it! STOP IT! Stop It! StOp It! > Stop it! STOP IT! Stop It! StOp It! > Stop it! STOP IT! Stop It! StOp It! > Stop it! STOP IT! Stop It! StOp It! > > I am truly sorry I ever mentioned ANYTHING about guns, about criminals and > /or crime rate!!!!!! Everybody back to your corners and come out slinging > > ALIENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > Please. > > Gregg. I TOTALLY AGREE, and I apologize for my part in perpetuating the gun thread. I will direct all future comments to proper groups. HOWEVER, if people continue to make serious gun comments in non-relevant newsgroups I will continue to crosspost their comments to talk.politics.guns. This goes for pro and anti gun posts. Robert K. BACK TO ALIENS!!! Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!est.enet.dec.com!randolph From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug4.164947.6050@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> <1992Aug3.150552.6020@mksol.dseg.ti.com> <1992Aug3.184558.3731@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> <1992Aug3.204545.21536@mksol.dseg.ti.com> Date: 4 AUG 92 12:39:45 Lines: 8 - Gun stuff deleted - Enough already with the guns! There's other newsgroups for this! Unless we're talking about shooting aliens, take it to one of them, please! -Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7908 alt.conspiracy:17395 alt.activism:30554 sci.skeptic:28393 misc.headlines:23175 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush.talk.politics.guns Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!utcsri!torn!maccs!mcshub!physun!bunker From: bunker@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Alex Bunker) Subject: Re: A racist argument against handgun control legislation. Message-ID: <1992Aug4.190703.11666@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> Sender: usenet@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca Nntp-Posting-Host: physun.physics.mcmaster.ca Organization: Dept. of Physics & Astronomy, McMaster University References: <1992Aug2.114512.22853@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> <1992Aug2.162931.26755@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> <1992Aug4.124014.15095@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1992 19:07:03 GMT Lines: 72 In article <1992Aug4.124014.15095@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> markr@mcil.comm.mot.com writes: >In article <1992Aug2.162931.26755@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> bunker@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Alex Bunker) writes: >>In article <1992Aug2.114512.22853@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> markr@mcil.comm.mot.com writes: > >>>First of all, The question was why shouldn't LAW-ABIDING people own weapons. >>>Law-Abiding people don't murder people. (by definition) >>> >>>Second of all, how do you know that US crime is due to Law-abiding people >>>owning weapons ? Perhaps the low crime rates in European countries are >>>due to the homogeneity (sp?) of their populace ? Why does Switzerland have >>>such a low crime rate and such a high rate of ownership of weapons ? Why >>>do certain countries have huge murder rates and almost no private ownership >>>of weapons ? (South Africa, Peru, etc..) >>> >>>Mark >> >>OK mr racist I can read between your hate filled lines. "Homogeneity >>of their populace" read = not too many murderous {insert foul ethnic >>slur referring to black and hispanic people}. Canada is FAR more >>ethnically diverse and has a murder rate less than the average >>large american city. > >Goddamn liberal. How dare you refer to me as a liberal. Liberals are indecisive wishy washy middle of the roaders I am a SOCIAL DEMOCRAT! (half way between liberal and socialist on the political spectrum) > I neither said nor meant anything racist, it is simply >a fact that many of the European countries are much older and have much >more homogeneous populations than the US, nor did I say anything at all >about ethnicity. > >As a matter of fact, my point is, Why should law-abiding people not be >allowed to own weapons ? > >> second point. having lived for a while in Switzerland let >>me tell you about gun ownership there. The ONLY gun Swiss people >>are allowed to own is their very large bulky Military rifle >>that remains DISASSEMBLED in their closed ready for the day >>the French, Germans, Austrians, or Italians invade (Yes they >>find this funny too!). Hardly a concealable weapon. > >I spent three summers in Switzerland, and I have observed a completely >different attitude on the part of the Swiss than you have. Most Swiss >take their weapons very seriously. A large percentage of the people (at >least the men) I met, own an automatic assault rifle AND a handgun. Every >weekend, the ranges are *full*, and I mean *full*, of people practicing. >(Most of my time was spent in the Bernese Oberland region, I don't know exactly >what the attitudes are in the other cantons, but I didn't notice any >differences on this particular issue) I was in more Urban Zurich,though I was very young. The Swiss people I know are mostly highly educated academics who find all this military stuff to be daft nonsense. They refer to their compulsory military service as "boy scouts for adults" and laugh at all those who are dumb enough to believe that Austria Italy France or Germany is planning an invasion. >> Citing SA and Peru is an unfair comparison. No America does not >>have the killing rate of Nagorno-Carabach,Transdnester, or >>Bosnia-Herzegovina right now either BIG DEAL! I am comparing the >>US to countries where all other things are more or less equal >>except gun control laws. > >The problem with that comparison, is that there aren't many countries >which things are more of less equal. > >Mark > ALEX . Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7909 alt.conspiracy:17396 alt.activism:30555 sci.skeptic:28396 misc.headlines:23176 alt.politics.bush:1320 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu!rjwade From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug4.191559.13255@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> Date: 4 Aug 92 19:15:59 GMT References: <1992Aug1.041842.19761@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> <1992Aug1.073525.15555@hubcap.clemson.edu> <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> Sender: news@noose.ecn.purdue.edu (USENET news) Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network Lines: 26 In article <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> bunker@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Alex Bunker) writes: >> >This is where I have to cut in look at the statistics in the real >world. The USA has a murder rate 10X higher than any of the >other democracies. IS IT really worth this "right to bear >arms" crap? how are Germans,french,Canadians,UKers more >opressed than Americans? They have low crime rates and >stringent firearm laws. In what way are they any worse off >because of this? I can think of a lot of ways they are >BETTER off... >ALEX >. oh, is it really worth this 'free speech' thing when sometimes people say bad stuff...gee alex...you scare me...maybe you are willing to give up your constitutional rights but don't you fucking dare try and take *mine* away! are you such a simpleton that you don't realize that there is no proof that this rate is related to citizens owning guns. hey alex, guess what...murder is illegal...but...surprise...people still get killed. drugs are illegal and ...surprise...people can still get drugs. you can never keep guns out of the hands of criminals and they don't obey the law anyway so banning any type of gun is pointless as well. i'm surprised you don't want to ban ford ranger pickups since that loon in texas used his to drive thru the window of the restraunt and then got out and started shooting all those defenseless people(gee maybe if one of them had a gun with them he would have not been able to kill so many...huh...imagine that...) get educated past your 3rd grade logic ya scarry moron! Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!centerline!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Rogue Agent) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: ALIENS JOIN FLIGHT PLAN Message-ID: <1992Aug4.194910.17092@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 4 Aug 92 19:49:10 GMT References: <1992Aug3.003015.27247@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 13 In article <1992Aug3.003015.27247@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au> rhoge1@esk (Robin Hoge) writes: > In the ship Lazar examined, a central column acted as a wave-guide >and sat atop a basketball-sized hemisphere in the floor which was the >antimatter reactor. Is it just me, or does this ring a bell with anyone else? 'Spock!! Noooooooo!!!!!!' 'The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few...or the one.' RA Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!jcitro3 From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) Subject: Re: Is this still alt.alien.visitors? Message-ID: <1992Aug4.204145.12816@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha References: <1992Aug4.012507.18984@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1992 20:41:45 GMT Lines: 6 Hey Rods right! maybe we (those who post on alt.alien.visitors) should post information about the 'Greys' on talk.politics.guns . I'm beginning to feel as though this newsgroup has been invaded! Joseph A.Citro III Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!e2big.mko.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com Subject: Re: Outlaw guns from Aliens? Message-ID: <1992Aug4.203546.14776@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1992 21:31:40 GMT Lines: 12 -Message-Text-Follows- In article <1992Aug4.183305.12587@uwm.edu>, angus@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Andrew Michael Vebber) writes... >Should Aliens from Outer Space have the right to bear arms? Are covered under >the second amendment? You tell me! Yes! There's a lot of strange stuff in the universe and some of it would eat you. Protect our inter-galatic right to bear arms... or arm bears...or something like that. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: We have met the enemy and they are us. Message-ID: <1992Aug4.192810.9808@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <3AUG199214163311@apsicc.aps.edu> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1992 19:28:10 GMT Lines: 54 In article <3AUG199214163311@apsicc.aps.edu> jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...) writes: >Hello all, [interesing backround deleted] >would be the need. And all the sightings of UFO's, abductions and >such are just ancient ancestral memories that have managed to sur- >vive and surface from time to time in a people who have forgotten >their original origins. > Just thoughts, > Jim Thanks Jim. Thats an angle I had not approached. So far I have just a few facts on all this "abduction thing". #1: They have and probably are occuring. This points out the fact that I do not believe the people are "just dreaming". I beleive the events really did take place, at least in some cases. In others, it may just be a dream. The abductions are taking place. People are being (of have been) examined. #2: In some cases, physical evidence shows up that the abductions happen in accord with UFO sightings. UFO means Unidentified Flying Object not Alien Spacecraft. This could be a decoy. The true places these aductions take place could be somewhere else. Yes, smell conspiracy here. Just a thought. #3: There is a lot of money being made off of this. Books, magazine articles even careers have been spawned due to the abductions. Get out the salt shaker! #4: I have four possibilies in my head about the identity of those that are abducting us. How you see each of my possibilities will depend on how Sci-fi interested, Gov. paranoid or technology oriented you are. They are listed below without any particular order. #1 possibility - People from other planets/star systems/galaxies. #2 possibility - People from this planet - they may already be here. #3 possibility - People from a different time (future or past) #4 possibility - People in our present - our government 1, 2 and 3 could be considered "Aliens" but I chose people instead since I tend to do my best to discourage racial bias regardless of human or alien biological pattern differences. Possibility #4 could be written into a Tom Clancy novel. Thanks to the above gentleman, I now have a fifth possibility. Ancient ancestral memories, interesting. This I will ponder for a while. Gregg. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7914 alt.conspiracy:17401 alt.activism:30569 sci.skeptic:28404 misc.headlines:23181 alt.politics.bush:1335 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: Ego-masturbation (was Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?!) Message-ID: <1992Aug4.193216.9901@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <1992Aug3.215311.25874@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1992 19:32:16 GMT Lines: 32 In article <1992Aug3.215311.25874@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> amorgan@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Crunchy Frog) writes: >In article stevem@solbourne.com (Stephen Matson) writes: >>schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) writes: > >This is amazing. This thread (gun control) has nothin to do with *any* >of the groups it is being posted to. Okay, I have seen some threads that >only belong in *one* of their listed groups, but *none*? > >Might I suggest adding: > > alt.religion.kibology > comp.lang.ada > talk.politics.gun.nuts > alt.personals > soc.culture.portugese > net.head.up.ass.losers I got a kick out of that last one. > >You don't want to miss anyone on the net, do you? > >C Frog Actually I started it. Its my fault C. I am really sorry and refuse to post any more gun/crime/politics stuff here. Don't rub it in. I feel bad enough already. Gregg. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7915 alt.conspiracy:17405 alt.activism:30571 sci.skeptic:28410 misc.headlines:23187 alt.politics.bush:1340 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!ames!pacbell.com!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!starnet!motcsd!udc!mcdphx!ennews!anasaz!qip!billy From: billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug3.033213.4155@anasaz> Date: 3 Aug 92 03:32:13 GMT References: <1992Jul31.011541.6582@bilver.uucp> Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, Az Lines: 26 In article wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) writes: -> ->[gobbledeegook deleted] -> ->That was, without a doubt, the biggest bunch of pure manure I have read ->ANYwhere on ANY newsgroup..... -> Actually, a second civil war in the United States isn't such a far fetched idea. It's the rage the world around ane we certainly have as many regional differences as counties that are breaking up now. There's a serious movement in Alaska now calling for sessation and California would clearly be better off without us. Look at LA. You had Koreans defending their stores at gun point and, a couple of more nights, the skin heads would have come out. Sooner if a black gang had decided to press the idea of movement into white neighboorhoods. So, while I don't think it's a conspiracy, the ideas in this post weren't so far off (except for the part about Bush/Quayle being in office next year.) \>Duane -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bill Moore billy%anasaz.UUCP@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (602) 395-1732 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7916 alt.conspiracy:17406 alt.activism:30572 sci.skeptic:28411 misc.headlines:23188 alt.politics.bush:1342 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gumby!wupost!decwrl!adobe!pngai From: pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai) Subject: Re: guns and criminals Message-ID: <1992Aug4.224146.15920@adobe.com> Sender: usenet@adobe.com (USENET NEWS) Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated References: <1992Aug4.015333.21023@s1.gov> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1992 22:41:46 GMT Lines: 10 In article <1992Aug4.015333.21023@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes: > And one should learn ways of self-defense using one's own >body, so one can deal with assailants not equipped with guns. How macho of you. My wife rejects your suggestion. So does my mother. -- My opinions are my own. A right delayed is a right denied. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7917 talk.politics.guns:37459 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.politics.guns Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!ukma!news From: uk09365@nx11.mik.uky.edu (robert i kesten) Subject: Re: Outlaw guns from Aliens? References: <1992Aug4.183305.12587@uwm.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: nx11.mik.uky.edu Message-ID: <1992Aug5.03942.13743@ms.uky.edu> Organization: University Of Kentucky, Dept. of Math Sciences Sender: news@ms.uky.edu (USENET News System) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1992 00:39:42 GMT Lines: 27 In article <1992Aug4.183305.12587@uwm.edu> angus@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Andrew Michael Vebber) writes: > Should Aliens from Outer Space have the right to bear arms? Are covered under > the second amendment? You tell me! SINCE THIS DEALS WITH EXTRATERRESTRIAL ALIENS I don't think I'm breaking my promise. The answer: if the aliens become a contributing part of the national community (note: this does not mean they have to become citizens) and they are defined as "people" then YES, I think they should have the right to keep and bear arms. (per U.S. Supreme Court decision U.S. v. Verdugo- Urquidez, 1990). Robert K. I also think aliens should all have the right to bare their arms, tentacles, claws, claspers, and all other such appendages as would not of an offensive nature to expose to public view. As to arming bears, I don't know about that subversive stuff. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Outlaw guns from Aliens? Message-ID: Date: Wed, 05 Aug 92 00:26:10 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <26159@life.ai.mit.edu> <15lvo2INNnhh@agate.berkeley.edu> <1992Aug4.183305.12587@uwm.edu> Keywords: Aliens, Guns Lines: 19 In article <1992Aug4.183305.12587@uwm.edu> angus@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Andrew Michael Vebber) writes: >Should Aliens from Outer Space have the right to bear arms? Are covered under >the second amendment? You tell me! Unless the aliens have a dress code, they are probably not required to wear long sleeve shirts. The greys are rather small, possibly they could be covered by the second amendment. (it's more relevant than the gun thread at least :)( >- JLW > >| angus@csd4.csd.uwm.edu | University of Wisconsin Milwaukee | Rich payner@netcom.com Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A question for John_-_Winston Message-ID: <63382@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 92 18:14:52 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul16.152737.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> <62918@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul31.072901.16965@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> Lines: 4 Dear U-all: I have been told that Multu posts about 20k of information and is beloved of people on this net and in Europe. I's like to meet him. It sounds like he has something to say and says it. John Winston. Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11084 alt.alien.visitors:7920 sci.skeptic:28418 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Get Off John's Back Please! Message-ID: <63383@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 92 18:22:52 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul29.185219.29352@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> <45868@shamash.cdc.com> <63079@cup.portal.com> <2379@israel.nysernet.org> <63292@cup.portal.com> <63361@cup.portal.com> Lines: 3 Dear Frog and Bob: You people are really great in your flames. You should copywrite all that material. John Winston. Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11086 alt.alien.visitors:7921 sci.skeptic:28419 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Get Off John's Back Please! Message-ID: <63387@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 92 18:55:24 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63292@cup.portal.com> <63361@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug4.155501.9315@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> Lines: 11 Here's the information about the man in France and the alien.---On Dec. 13, 1973 Claude Vorilhon came in contact with a person coming out of a space craft. The extraterrestrial was 4.5 feet tall with long black hair and a short beard of the same color. His eyes were slightly almond- shaped and stretched out towards the temples. He wore a sort of green suit which appeared to be made of only one piece. A strange halo surrounded his face. More precisely, the air surrounding the head was brilliant and seemed to vibrate or shimmer. The extraterrestrial stopped and smiled and so did Claude. C. then asked him, "Where do you come from?" The ET answered in perfect French, From very far away." "You speak French!" "I speak all languages of the world." "Do you come from another-----JW Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11087 alt.alien.visitors:7922 sci.skeptic:28420 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Back Message-ID: <63388@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 92 19:09:10 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul29.185219.29352@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> <45868@shamash.cdc.com> <63079@cup.portal.com> <2379@israel.nysernet.org> <63292@cup.portal.com> <63361@cup.portal.com> Lines: 11 ---"Do you come from another planet?" "Yes, I do," "Is this the first time you have visited the Earth?" "Oh, no!" "Do you come here often?" "Very often is the least I could say." Claude came to talk with the alien for six consecutive days and talked for one hour each time. He was told about our origin, our probable future as well as the essential information regarding the universe and our place in it. He was told that a long time ago, the secret of life was discovered by successfully creating 100% synthetic human beings through a perfect understanding of deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) or genetic engineering. They found a planet suitable for the creation of life and they started a colossal experiment. End of Part 1. John Winston. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!usc!hacgate!maxwell!frazier From: frazier@maxwell (Greg Frazier) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Is Bigfoot a Visitor? Message-ID: <22693@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> Date: 4 Aug 92 21:22:01 GMT References: <1992Aug3.152226.14103@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM Lines: 40 X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4 rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: : Greg[you write] : >Be serious - you tell us you saw bigfoot, and then rolled over : >and went back to sleep, and we're supposed to buy it? Yeah, : >right. I've nver heard of a hypnogogic vision, but I find it : >a lot easier to believe than your cockamamie story. : : : It really doesn't matter what you believe. People deal with fear in a : plethora of ways. Because I chose not to pursue the creature was the : direct result of FEAR. You can call it what ever you want.....but until it : happens to you, I guess you will never know how you would handle it ,now : would you? Hold it a sec - you didn't just not pursue the creature. You went to sleep! Sure, I might wet my nighty - and then I'd stay up the rest of the night, listening. That is where one pretty much has to believe that you never quite woke up. : I'm 6'2" & 220 pounds,born & raised for the most part in East San : Jose,scrapped plenty in my life,never been scared of anything or : anyone....until that night. Never scared of *anything* or *anyone*? Tough cookie - further evidence that you were hallucinating. If your conscious had been in control, you'd have handled it. : YOU WEREN'T THERE. : : Join Mr. Sheaffer in the glass house & pray the Gods are kind to you. I don't get this glass house business. I'd be as thrilled as anybody if we discovered aliens or bigfoot (whichever you think this was). I mean it - it would really be neat. But, let's face it Rod; this wasn't the big event. -- Greg Frazier frazier@CS.UCLA.EDU !{ucbvax,rutgers}!ucla-cs!frazier Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!deakin.OZ.AU!fulcrum.oz.au!steve From: steve@fulcrum.oz.au (Steve Taylor) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll Message-ID: <1992Aug5.063425.27652@fulcrum.oz.au> Date: 5 Aug 92 06:34:25 GMT References: <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> Organization: The Fulcrum Consulting Group Lines: 24 In tom@kether.webo.dg.com (Tom Sullivan) writes: >Give John a break. I enjoy his postings, precisely because they are >more far-out. The UFO-thing is definately unsolved, and I want to >hear ALL possibilities. Most of the sceptical reponses to John's >posts are also personally insulting to John. I consider these MUCH >more offensive than John's info or email-on-the-net. To think that >our science is the end-all to knowledge is incredibly naive (I >personally think that our science is only beginning to understand the >Universe, and this makes science exciting). So, if there are >alternative theories/explainations for all this, I consider them >welcome. I'm NOT for censorship, which is what this posting implies. I agree with most of what you're saying - certainly about John being able to have his say. However, the real problem seems to be that when John sends a private email message to someone, it ends up posted to the net. It's more of a technological than an ideological problem. Steve steve@fulcrum.oz.au >Tom Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7925 alt.conspiracy:17428 alt.activism:30600 sci.skeptic:28436 misc.headlines:23208 alt.politics.bush:1369 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!deakin.OZ.AU!fulcrum.oz.au!steve From: steve@fulcrum.oz.au (Steve Taylor) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug5.064003.27739@fulcrum.oz.au> Date: 5 Aug 92 06:40:03 GMT References: <1992Jul31.011541.6582@bilver.uucp> <1992Jul31.212244.20376@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug1.041842.19761@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> <1992Aug1.073525.15555@hubcap.clemson.edu> Organization: The Fulcrum Consulting Group Lines: 17 In <1992Aug1.073525.15555@hubcap.clemson.edu> trev@hubcap.clemson.edu (Trevor Bauknight) writes: >Why would you have a problem with law-abiding citizens owning semiautomatic >weapons? Well, it's not as if there are two seperate breeds - law abiding citizens and criminals, who you could tell apart by checking the serial numbers on their engine block or something. >What harm could it possibly do? Hey mom! Watch me make Rover dance! >Trevor Bauknight trev@hubcap.clemson.edu ...gatech!hubcap!trev Steve steve@fulcrum.oz.au Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7926 alt.conspiracy:17429 alt.activism:30603 sci.skeptic:28439 misc.headlines:23209 alt.politics.bush:1371 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!coventry!ccx018 From: ccx018@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Leslie Griffiths (Griff)) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Subject: Re: guns and criminals Message-ID: Date: 5 Aug 92 07:23:18 GMT References: <1992Aug4.015333.21023@s1.gov> <1992Aug4.224146.15920@adobe.com> Sender: news@cck.coventry.ac.uk (news user) Organization: Coventry University Lines: 21 Nntp-Posting-Host: cc_sysh In article <1992Aug4.224146.15920@adobe.com> pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai) writes: >In article <1992Aug4.015333.21023@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes: >> And one should learn ways of self-defense using one's own >>body, so one can deal with assailants not equipped with guns. > >How macho of you. My wife rejects your suggestion. So does my mother. > I've always thought that the best form of self-defense is to run away. Not always practicable of course, but being fit-enough to leg it has its advantages. Cheers -- Griff \\ ccx018@uk.ac.cov ^^^^^ :-= ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ // Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bruce.cs.monash.edu.au!monu6!minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au!rxkgre From: rxkgre@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au (Geof Evans) Subject: Re: We have met the enemy and they are us. Organization: RMIT Computer Centre, Melbourne Australia. Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1992 14:15:13 EST Message-ID: <1992Aug5.141513.6852@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au> References: <3AUG199214163311@apsicc.aps.edu> Lines: 13 jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...) writes: >Maybe I should write Sci-Fi. <<<* Yeah ...maybe you should. I would. -- ___________________________________________________________________ || Geof Evans | DOMAIN: rxkgre@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au || || Melbourne,Australia 3000 | Tel: +61 3 663 3663 || || If they *really* wanna know...tell 'em that God was drunk. || ||___________________________________________________________________|| Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!newshub.sdsu.edu!moho!joel From: joel@moho.sdsu.edu (Joel Wedberg) Subject: Re: Execute the Messenger (was: Is Bigfoot a Visitor?) Message-ID: <1992Aug5.080739.3068@newshub.sdsu.edu> Sender: news@newshub.sdsu.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: moho.sdsu.edu Organization: San Diego State University, College of Sciences X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3 References: <#ctm#dl.sheaffer@netcom.com> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1992 08:07:39 GMT Lines: 27 sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: : In article <1992Jul31.154025.12809@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: : >to : >>dominate over the darkness.Well like I said , I never wake up but that : >>morning I woke out of a dead sleep & sat strait UP! Looked out of the : >>screen door to see to my amazement : >>7-10' creature standing about 5-6' away......staring at me.I could not : I'm not erudite in psychology or dream study, but this doesn't sound like any kind of a dream to me. It sounds like a bullshit story concocted to generate excitement and get attention. If not that, then maybe the dream thing. OH, God - the Dream Thing! Is it grey?!? Aw, c'mon... Joel Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7929 alt.conspiracy:17430 alt.activism:30609 sci.skeptic:28441 misc.headlines:23211 alt.politics.bush:1372 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!newshub.sdsu.edu!moho!joel From: joel@moho.sdsu.edu (Joel Wedberg) Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug5.084255.3775@newshub.sdsu.edu> Sender: news@newshub.sdsu.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: moho.sdsu.edu Organization: San Diego State University, College of Sciences X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3 References: <1992Aug5.064003.27739@fulcrum.oz.au> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1992 08:42:55 GMT Lines: 26 I have decided that I have a Constitutional right to keep and bear a thermonuclear device. I also have a grenade launcher and a flame thrower, and it's all for two reasons: (1) To protect myself from those fascist, repressive police. (I've been hearing since the sixties that the storm troopers would be appearing outside all our doors any time now, so it can't be too much longer...) (2) Because, because....because I have a RIGHT too, godammit! Incidentally, actually reading the applicable passage in the Constitution and adding a moment's thought will reveal that the people have a right to raise an armed militia, not store ak47's against the possibility that an individual might feel his rights are being violated and feel he/she doesn't want to wait for the courts to sort it out. Joel Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7930 alt.conspiracy:17434 alt.activism:30613 sci.skeptic:28445 misc.headlines:23213 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!sunic!chalmers.se!etek.chalmers.se!etek.chalmers.se!lindq From: lindq@etek.chalmers.se (Johan Lindqvist) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush.talk.politics.guns Subject: Re: A racist argument against handgun control legislation. Message-ID: <1992Aug5.092544.25579@etek.chalmers.se> Date: 5 Aug 92 09:25:44 GMT References: <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> <1992Aug2.114512.22853@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> <1992Aug2.162931.26755@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> <1992Aug4.124014.15095@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> Sender: news@etek.chalmers.se (USENET News System) Reply-To: lindq@etek.chalmers.se (Johan Lindqvist) Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg, SWEDEN Lines: 25 markr@mot.com (Mark) writes: |> |> >>First of all, The question was why shouldn't LAW-ABIDING people own weapons. |> >>Law-Abiding people don't murder people. (by definition) |> |> |> As a matter of fact, my point is, Why should law-abiding people not be |> allowed to own weapons ? |> |> Mark Because if (all) people own weapons, they become more widespread, also among criminals. And are peple born criminals? No. They become criminals by oppurtunity. And one important thing when committing a crime like robbery, murder or rape is to be able to threat and harm the victim, which is easily done with a gun. Conclution: If guns are not so wide spread, criminals would have a hard time getting them, and violent crimes would, hopefully, be reduced. ______________________________________________________________________________ Johan Lindqvist |Due to lack of interest, tomorrow Gothenburg Mail: |has been cancelled. Sweden lindq@etek.chalmers.se | ______________________________________________________________________________ Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Where are you ET? (was Re: Moon Activities?) Message-ID: <1992Aug5.092002.400@crc.ac.uk> Date: 5 Aug 92 09:20:02 GMT References: <139502.2A79E0E1@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Sender: news@crc.ac.uk Reply-To: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK Lines: 65 Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium In article <139502.2A79E0E1@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>, Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes: > > I believe you are referring to what is known as Lunar Transient Anomalies > (LTA). NASA compiled a paper about this listing the various observations > that go back a couple of hundred years about people observing strange light > activity on the moon. However, it has been theorized that the light > phenomena seen there may be volcanic activity. The report from NASA is > interesting. > > Mike > -- > Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 > UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name > INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG This NASA report sounds very interesting. On Apollo 17 they found orange soil which I believe they put down to being (?recent) volcanic activity. Do you Michael (or anybodyelse here) have a better/more complete reference for the NASA report. (Incidentally I have also come across these events referred to as Transient Lunar Phenomena (TLP's)). Some flying saucer buffs[1] have in the past claimed that these flashes of light are caused by opening the hanger doors to let the flyings saucers out. This is bunk. Steve. [1] Technical note : These are flying saucer buffs not UFOlogists because: a) UFO = Unidentified Flying Object These people have indentified their objects to be flying saucers (i.e. spacecraft), therefore they are not UFO's b) the 'ologist' implies at least an attempt to apply however badly scientific methodology. As far as I can see the proposers of flying saucer bases on the moon have no evidence other than it makes a nice story. POSTSCRIPT: Around 90% of UFO reports can be explained after careful investigation to be mis-identifications of man-made objects or of natural phenomena. Around six months ago, I posted inviting those people who felt that the remaining 10% could be explained as being Flying Saucers (i.e extraterrestrial spacecraft) to present their evidence. This generated zero response. Does this mean you guys have no evidence? Here is another chance to present it. Steve. -- (Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. Phone: +44 81 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: More please Message-ID: <1992Aug5.092753.477@crc.ac.uk> Date: 5 Aug 92 09:27:53 GMT References: <13927@mindlink.bc.ca> Sender: news@crc.ac.uk Reply-To: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK Lines: 22 Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium In article <13927@mindlink.bc.ca>, Steve_Sawyer@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Sawyer) writes: > I am an alien being not of this planet communicating to you on behalf of all > beings from all worlds in all dimensions. There is purpose to this > communication....please...teach me more about your beliefs and ideals. What is > it that you strive for? Can I be of help? . Dear Steve, What I strive for is for Aliens like you to be able to present some convincing evidence that you and similar extraterrestrials really are ET's. I and many other readers look forward to seeing your evidence Steve. -- (Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. Phone: +44 81 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Moon Activities? Message-ID: <1992Aug5.093649.603@crc.ac.uk> Date: 5 Aug 92 09:36:49 GMT References: <139502.2A79E0E1@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <1992Aug1.211804.5485@mach4.wlu.ca> Sender: news@crc.ac.uk Reply-To: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK Lines: 18 Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium In article <1992Aug1.211804.5485@mach4.wlu.ca>, kfisher3@mach4.wlu.ca (kevin fisher U) writes: [in reply to Michael Corbin, message deleted] > > The only problem with volcanic activity is that the lights were apparently > appearing in geometric forms (triangles, squares). The source I read has an > IMMENSE distrust of NASA (because of it's gov't affiliations :) > Can you quote your source for this information, Kevin. If it is not volcanic, what do you or your source believe causes the Transient phenomena? Steve. -- (Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. Phone: +44 81 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7934 alt.conspiracy:17435 alt.activism:30616 sci.skeptic:28447 misc.headlines:23214 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush.talk.politics.guns Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!lmpsbbs!markr From: markr@mot.com (Mark) Subject: Re: A racist argument against handgun control legislation. Reply-To: markr@mcil.comm.mot.com Organization: MCIL Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1992 08:20:12 GMT Message-ID: <1992Aug5.082012.22868@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> References: <1992Aug2.162931.26755@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> <1992Aug4.124014.15095@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> <1992Aug4.190703.11666@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> Sender: news@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com (Net News) Nntp-Posting-Host: 145.9.14.26 Lines: 35 In article <1992Aug4.190703.11666@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> bunker@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Alex Bunker) writes: >How dare you refer to me as a liberal. Liberals are indecisive wishy >washy middle of the roaders I am a SOCIAL DEMOCRAT! (half way >between liberal and socialist on the political spectrum) OK, that's a little better. :-) But still not my type. :-) >>I spent three summers in Switzerland, and I have observed a completely >>different attitude on the part of the Swiss than you have. Most Swiss >>take their weapons very seriously. A large percentage of the people (at >>least the men) I met, own an automatic assault rifle AND a handgun. Every >>weekend, the ranges are *full*, and I mean *full*, of people practicing. >>(Most of my time was spent in the Bernese Oberland region, I don't know exactly >>what the attitudes are in the other cantons, but I didn't notice any >>differences on this particular issue) > >I was in more Urban Zurich,though I was very young. The Swiss >people I know are mostly highly educated academics who find >all this military stuff to be daft nonsense. They refer to their >compulsory military service as "boy scouts for adults" and >laugh at all those who are dumb enough to believe that Austria >Italy France or Germany is planning an invasion. That explains it, you were in the company of a bunch of liberals :-) (I read 'highly educated academics' as 'liberals') Seriously, the people of the countryside take their military very seriously and don't joke about it. Besides, 50 years ago people weren't dumb enough to think that Hitler would attack almost all of Europe *and* Russia. (and look what actually happened) Mark Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!unislc!ach From: ach@unislc.uucp (Andy Hutton) Subject: Crop Circles? X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4 Message-ID: <1992Aug5.115146.14670@unislc.uucp> Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1992 11:51:46 GMT Lines: 8 I have been following the Crop Circle phenomenon for the last few years in the media. This year however, there seems to be a lack of interest or possibly activity. Has anyone seen or heard of anything going on lately? I would appreciate any anecdotal information, opinions, or references anyone may care to offer. Thanks ... Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7936 talk.politics.guns:37489 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.politics.guns Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!utkcs2!utkux1.utk.edu!utkux1.utk.edu!archer From: archer@utkux1.utk.edu (T. Archer) Subject: The right to bare arms Message-ID: Sender: usenet@utkux1.utk.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education References: <1992Aug4.183305.12587@uwm.edu> <1992Aug5.03942.13743@ms.uky.edu> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1992 12:59:19 GMT Lines: 21 In article <1992Aug5.03942.13743@ms.uky.edu> uk09365@nx11.mik.uky.edu (robert i kesten) writes: >I also think aliens should all have the right to bare >their arms, tentacles, claws, claspers, and all other >such appendages as would not of an offensive nature to >expose to public view. Whether or not bare arms of any species is offensive to the public view is irrelivant. THe right to bare arms is a legitimate form of self-expression and is protected under the First Amendment. Notice that I am treating this issue with all the seriousness that it deserves. Phbbbbbt! -=-=- T. Archer PA142548@utkvm1.utk.edu University of Tennessee "Vote Dempublican, it's easier than thinking." -- Unknown -=-=- Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Gulf Breeze Six In The News Again Message-ID: <139548.2A7F2CEA@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 5 Aug 92 00:55:01 GMT Article-I.D.: paranet.139548.2A7F2CEA Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Date: Wed, 5 Aug 92 06:32:41 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul29.185219.29352@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> <45868@shamash.cdc.com> <63079@cup.portal.com> <2379@israel.nysernet.org> <63292@cup.portal.com> <63361@cup.portal.com> <63388@cup.portal.com> Lines: 4 Don't have time to say anything but this, remember tonight 1100 PM, wednesday, astral blast off time, pacific daylight saving time. Don't be late. John Winston. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <63421@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 92 06:34:55 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Aug03.023551.13104@jabaru.cec.edu.au> <63302@cup.portal.com> <85155@netnews.upenn.edu> Lines: 2 I don't have time to say anything. I'll to catch you later. John Winston. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30 From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien descriptions, why the greys?? Message-ID: Date: 5 Aug 92 13:30:58 GMT References: <1992Aug2.213702.7219@nmsu.edu> <24510@castle.ed.ac.uk> Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com Reply-To: dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 25 In article <24510@castle.ed.ac.uk> fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) writes: >rscott@spock.NMSU.Edu (Joseph Good) writes: > >>One theory that has been going around for quite a while is our facination with >>'grey' type aliens is due to the movie "Close Encounters"...............id much > The aliens in this movie along with a lot of the details about the behavior of the witnesses have been taken from real case histories. In this case art imitates life. These abductions have been taking place for a very long time. Long before the movie came out. There are many details that are taken under hypnosis that are not published so that there is some control. I have two friends who remember their abductions. They were told by their hypnotherapist not to reveal certain aspects of their abductions to anyone in case their memories influence anyone else. One of these friends has physical marks on her body from the procedures performed on her. I personally believe her because I know she doesn't have that much imagination. Got to run. Denise -- ========================================================================= >>>>>>>>>>>|| Copyright (c) Denise faith Solis 1992 ||<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>|| dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com ||<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!mips!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Execute the Messenger (was: Is Bigfoot a Visitor?) Message-ID: <1992Aug5.144308.13195@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 5 Aug 92 14:43:08 GMT References: <#ctm#dl.sheaffer@netcom.com> <1992Aug5.080739.3068@newshub.sdsu.edu> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 49 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: : In article <1992Jul31.154025.12809@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: : >to : >>dominate over the darkness.Well like I said , I never wake up but that : >>morning I woke out of a dead sleep & sat strait UP! Looked out of the : >>screen door to see to my amazement : >>7-10' creature standing about 5-6' away......staring at me.I could not : >> I'm not erudite in psychology or dream study, but this >>doesn't sound like any kind of a dream to me. >> It sounds like a bullshit story concocted to generate >>excitement and get attention. >> If not that, then maybe the dream thing. >> OH, God - the Dream Thing! >> Is it grey?!? >> Aw, c'mon... >> Joel Joel,Greg,Robert & the rest of you closeminded assuming pinheads, I can truly see why more people will not come forward to tell about their experiences. Most will probably take them to the grave rather than be subjected to character asassination & ridicule.We will never get anywhere in trying to figure out some of the most confounding myteries on this globe. With people such as yourselves, ready to pounce on anyone that has an experience that you can't understand. As far as it being a b.s. story..........Read between the lines -FOAD- Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11092 alt.alien.visitors:7942 sci.skeptic:28455 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Don_-_Showen From: Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Saga of the Family of Light I - Pleiadians13 Message-ID: <63422@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 92 07:31:08 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 340 The Saga of the Family of Light Part 1 Over [the last couple of years] we have discussed many ideas with you concerning boundaries that you have set around your definition of reality. [There] is a need for each of you to examine the boundaries that you have set around yourselves. Each of you believes that you have evolved, that you have a large picture, that you see many things. Relative to where you have journeyed from, indeed, you have made progress. However, we guarantee you that you are not seeing the boundary that you presently set for yourself, the boundary that still defines what you believe you can and cannot do. This is what tethers you to this version, this frequency of reality. These boundaries that you set, that you advertise and announce about yourselves, keep you from moving with the information that is beginning to awaken inside of you. The information is part of the spiritual upliftment. Different layers of reality are removed so that you become more in tune with the realms that are called spirit. That is what spiritual advancement is. We want you to give up boundaries. We want you to stop defining and protecting every aspect of your lives. Light represents information. Darkness represents ignorance, not being informed. You have heard us speak many times of the Family of Light or the White T-Shirt and the Dark T-Shirt teams. You represent a return of the White T-Shirts. That's basically who you are. You are members of the Family of Light and we want you to contemplate who Light are. We want that to be a concept that filters through your consciousness. You all know that the body is changing. There is a rearranging and a rebundling of the light encoded filaments that have been scattered inside of your physical body. Your bodies are being retooled, redesigned. Light encoded filaments make up the strand which forms each helix [of the DNA]. As this energy [during the energy accelerations] moves into the body, it is like a gridwork of energy that is superimposed or aligned over the physical body. All of the bodies must be intact in order for the light encoded filament bundling to be affected. What does this mean? Remember there are millions of light encoded filaments. They have been purposely scattered in your DNA so that a long time ago when you were created, you could be controlled by some. There were those who were of Light who biogenetical created a great liberation within one species of the planet. Your reality, your world, at different times was raided. There were other forms of extraterrestrial stewardship or cosmic kings that came in and took over the project of your earth. This has been called "the fall" in religious terms. A change of administration took place. These new administrators on your planet called themselves God with a big "G" when they were really gods with a little "g." They did a biogenetic manipulation upon many members of the species. Your relatives that made up the organization of the DNA material were put asunder, or scattered within the body. That formed tiny fibers of data that were at random within the cells of the body. These are the light encoded filaments. The light encoded filaments are beginning to find their counterparts and data, information, history that is your right to know, is organizing itself inside of your bodies in conjunction with the rays and the gridworks that are being put over your physical bodies, you who are members of the Family of Light. It is an awesome task to carry light. Once you allow light to come into the body you begin the process of change. [It] is not always a joyous, uplifting, fun-filled time as some of you have discovered. In this process, when things are not so fun-filled, the first thing that you all do in order to keep yourself from evolving and from changing, you immediately begin to respond to all emotional events with fear. You blame someone else and you whine and you complain and you feel and believe that someone did something to you. The rest of the planet believes this. The rest of the planet are not members of the Family of Light. There are millions of you here, of course, and light is returning to this planet where the Dark T-shirts were in charge for a very, very long time, where the Dark T-shirts fed off of your emotions of fear and negativity and war and greed. Because this is a free will universe, all of this has been allowed. And, of course, Prime Creator, First Cause, is the Dark Team as well as the Family of Light. Prime Creator, First Cause is all things. We teach you in terms of stories. Some day perhaps you will see through some of the stories that we tell and you will not need these stories any longer. You will be able to smash paradigms and come into a knowing of larger realities. Until that day, we speak to you in stories so that we can hold your interest and entice you along to areas where you are petrified to go and yet in areas where you have committed to the deepest portion of your soul to journey You have agreed to carry light and to return light to this planet. So it is that as light begins to fill your bodies, your memories must be opened and you must evolve as the DNA evolves, into a multi-dimensional self, a multidimensional reality. EDITOR'S NOTE: In earlier tapes the Pleiadians explained that as we are evolving biogenetically our DNA, which was a double helix, has now become a triple helix. The triple will become six, six will become nine and nine will become twelve. Each new strand relates to a corresponding chakra in the twelve chakra system. When the triple helix was born, there was a rebundling of certain information which coincided with the double helix as your scientific community would describe it. There was stirring up and there were memories and there was energy that needed to be brought to the surface. The first two strands [the double helix] that are in each person relate to the first two chakras the base chakra and the chakra of sexuality. The triple helix relates to the third chakra, that of feeling. As the triple helix came into blossoming and as the triple helix began to release its data, as the nervous system continued to evolve, the brain began to move into a functional capacity - full function you are striving for today rather than a mere 5-8%. This mutation process is all of the data. The complete history of yourselves in the universe is in these light encoded filaments which have been scattered inside of the self by beings who did not want you to be that talented because they could not control you. You are now coming to the time where there are three more strands so there [will] be six strands. The six strands will work you through the heart center, the throat center and the third eye center. Anything that you have not let go of that has to do with identity, sexuality and feeling if you have not worked through these and simply used the material of your own history to create soap operas around your life that you want to run and have a non-ending show, you will get stuck in these areas. As the other frequencies, as the other DNA's begin to form, if you do not clear this stuff, everything will go into chaos in your body. The self must explore all of the history of this body so that you can accept who and what this body is, and who and what this body has done and what has been done to it. If and when you can reach this place of understanding why you created others coming into your life to create great disturbances, then ideally you will put yourself in a position to sanely explore the channels of the multi-dimensional self where we guarantee you, you are not going to be pleased at what you have done. Many of you have been practicing the art of projection. That means that you blame someone else for what you have created. That is acting completely against all that we have taught you. No one else does anything to you ever. You create your reality. In order for you to get the body ready to move into the multi-dimensional version of self, you must stop judging it. The multi-dimensional self is where you literally begin to feel this data from the light-encoded filaments that is your history, that is your identity, that is the history of your world on this planet and of f of it. In order for you to have this history revealed to you as a frequency, you must move out of right and wrong and judgment. You must smash the paradigms. We have carried the idea of sexuality into many of these concepts. A long time ago we taught you that sexuality is a frequency of ecstasy that was not taken away from you like the data in the DNA. You were left with the frequency of orgasmic experience in sexuality so that you could remember your higher identity. When this energy, or this history of yourself begins to reveal itself and you begin to discover who you are, you have to unite many bodies in order to receive the full impact of the gridwork of your identity to let the 12 helixes fit in the body, to let the light encoded filaments rearrange themselves. It has to do with the mental body, which is of course connected to the physical body. Mentally you can send an image or you can stir up the physical body. Everyone gets stuck in the emotional body. The emotional body is connected to the spiritual body. The emotional body is the body that everybody wants to skip. "I want to evolve. I want a rapid acceleration and I do not want to go through the feeling center to do it." You are connected to your multidimensional selves through your feelings. So it is through your feelings where primarily humans get stuck. That is why men have given up feeling. In your society, men have simply bypassed or recircuited the energy from the first chakra, the second chakra and they move up into thinking. That is why the female vibration has been very frustrated with the male vibration because the male vibration does not feel. The male vibrations have lost their feeling into their second chakra. It has been very frustrating. If the male vibration felt, they could not go out and commit war. You cannot feel and take the life of another. In general, if your feeling center is open, you are connected to how someone else is. You would feel their pain and it would be a rare group of people who would get off on that kind of pain and killing. War occurs because feeling centers are shut down. So the male vibration has been in agony by having feelings locked into the penis for all these years. You may think it is a joke. It is not a joke. That is what allowed the patriarchal society to develop without feeling men. Your world has been organized by men for quite a number of thousands of years as the woman or the goddess energy has decided to be quiet for awhile. Now you are experiencing a reawakening of the goddess and the merging of the male and the female identity within each person which has been called on your planet the twin flame. The twin flame is the male and the female within each person. QUESTION: Sometimes the things you really want to experience or that you crave to express and you feel like are truly you, you're terrified of experiencing. Are the craving and the fear somehow connected to the fact that the DNA has been scattered and the light is in there but you can't seem to get to it? PLEIADIANS: Gold star for you. That is a very good stretch of understanding what you fight with to understand. The physical bodies of the creatures of earth were designed. You all represent the renegade group of Light. A renegade factor of Light shall we say. You have agreed to come back on the planet. You are on assignment. You come into these physical bodies and take them over. You intend through the power of your spiritual identity to change the physical body. You all selected with great care the genetic line that would best give you a head start with all of this. So each of you genetically chose your parentage or your genetic genealogical history somewhere where members of the Family of Light have threaded through your own genes. When you begin to awaken this identity, this reality, when the coding begins to be fired in you, you must follow. The logical mind wants to fight with the coding. It is the logical mind to some extent that has a memory of the pain that was suffered when the fall took place. When man existed in his right domain, man had the ability to understand many realities. Man had the ability to be multi-dimensional, to be one and equal with the gods. The gods raided this reality just like corporate raiders come in and take over a place because the pension funds are in great abundance the funds upon this planet were in great abundance. So long ago, in order to have these gods be believed as gods, they rearranged you genetically. The DNA was like a fantastic library [before it was scattered]. Imagine going into a library and pulling all of the books off of the shelf and letting them all be heaped into the center of the room and then destroying the card catalog so there is no way to find information. That information exists, but if it is not stumbled upon it is lost. It is not cross-referenced. That is what happened with your genetic structure. That is when the Family of Light was scattered from the planet. The Dark Team, that which operated out of ignorance, came in. The body carries a fear and a memory of striving for knowledge that the gods represented, that they took away from you. The gods who did this are magnificent space creatures. They can do many kinds of manipulations and work with realities in many different ways. When this occurred, man began to be in ignorance and man began to call these space creatures God with a big "g." God with a big "g" has never visited this planet. God with a big "g" is in all things. You have only dealt with gods with a little "g" who have wanted to confuse you, who have thought of this as a place that they own out in the galactic fringes of this free-will universe. QUESTION: It seems such a paradox; that on one hand we create our reality and on the other hand we have been genetically altered into ignorant beings. PLEIADIANS: Yes. This is the paradox we want you to be confused with at this time. You see, both of those concepts are boundaries. They define your reality. There are enough of you awakened. You are not alone. The process is occurring so rapidly that you are ready to have a huge realization about your identity as members of the Family of Light. You must begin to integrate the concept that, yes, you are biogenetically manipulated and you create your own reality. In this free-will zone all is allowed. One of the primary lessons that has been going on on this planet is, in a free-will zone, authority, sovereignty, tends to be the major issue all over the universe. You have the free-will to give up your authority and you allow others to define your existence. Others created you just like you create many things. You bring light to things you do not understand. Ideally, the things that you bring light to and the things that you become steward over, you have a certain degree of responsibility to. You have a certain compassion of stewardship and you balance out your power over what you create. The beings who created you, [had] their creation raided. Others came in and took over in this free-will zone where all is allowed. You, as members of the Family of Light, have designed this time to alter the planet, to eventually alter the whole universe. The Family of Light is very vast. There are many more of many other kinds of families besides light. We are simply talking to you about light because that is your primary affiliation at this time. Perhaps [later] you will begin to realize what is beyond light, what else there is besides light. QUESTION: When the DNA was scattered, where did the information go? PLEIADIANS: It was all set asunder so that there was no way to make sense of the information. So, how do you find the information? The information is going to reveal itself to you. That is the process. You don't have to go looking for it. This is your heritage. This is who you are. It is the memories that are going to come flooding your consciousness. As the DNA begins to form these new strands, these new strands will travel along a nervous system in the body that is being developed at this time. Over this last year we worked with you to develop the nervous system, to pull light into the body, to oxygenate the system, to learn how to move through energy accelerations and call more ideas, more experiences into the body. As this process begins to grow itself and nurture itself in the body, you simply observe it. You want to know how to access it. When you get stuck in your dramas, that is when you keep reading one of the books and don't let all of the information of the other books come together. There is a whole story. The story has to do with your whole soul. The entire soul. You are, as members of the Family of Light, agreeing to hold in your physical body, conscious awareness of all of your- existence and to accept what you have done, the parts you played in all these existences. And then, to raid different realities, to change them according to the dictates of your agreement as a representative of the Family of Light. You have free will within this, of course. The triple helix brings you into the feeling center. The feeling center is emotion. Emotion is linked, no doubt about it, and it is your road, it is your bridge, your ticket to the spiritual self. When people don't like or deny the emotional self, they can't get in to the spiritual realms. The Christed one said "Know thyself." That was given on the planet a long time ago and distorted so that people could not understand how grand indeed they were, that all they had to do was rearrange themselves. It is always internal. When people want to know how to go about bringing the change upon the planet, we've always said work with yourself. Develop yourself. Move beyond the boundaries of self. Learn to become multi-dimensional. Learn to exist in the astral world. Learn to travel beyond the physical body. Stop defining the body as ending "here" which is what society encourages you to do so that you can be controlled. In a free will zone control is part of the game because, in a free will zone someone is going to say, "I want to be in charge." You are members of the Family of Light. To what hierarchy and to what gods do you answer? The Pleiadians are a collective of extraterrestrials from the star system the Pleiades. They have formed a tremendous society which operates with love, with ideas and ideals that we are yet unfamiliar with. The Pleiadians call themselves our ancient family because many of us came here from the Pleiades to participate in the new experiment of Earth. The Pleiadians are here as ambassadors from another universe to help Earth through her transition from the third dimension to the fourth dimension and to assist each of us in our personal endeavors of awakening, remembering and knowing. Barbara Marciniak is an internationally known trance channel from North Carolina. She began channeling in 1988. The strength and purity of the message she is bringing very quickly captured the hearts of many seekers looking to be all that they can be Barbara has channeled at various Expos and for groups across the United States, in Peru, Egypt, Germany and Japan. You may contact Barbara at Bold Connections Unlimited, P. O. Box 6521, Raleigh, NC 27628. Copyright by Barbara Marciniak, reprinted from Connecting Link Magazine Issue 13 with permission. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7943 talk.religion.newage:11093 sci.skeptic:28456 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Don_-_Showen From: Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic Subject: Re Hatton: CIA or ET Message-ID: <63423@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 92 07:38:26 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 80 Len asks >Does anyone out here have any information regarding George Green? There are >a growing number of people (myself included) who are beginning to feel that >Green is actively working with the CIA to produce disinformation regarding >UFOs and ETs. A good mystery always did stir up my circulation! :^) >Does anyone have any info on this guy? >Thank You >Len No folks, I did not pay Len to ask that! :-). But since he did I feel a necessity to respond to that publicly. I am a champion of channeling and consider Hatton to be the ahole of the universe, not in the least channeling. To repeat what I have said in another post, the Hatton material will cause brain rot. And I mean that in the truest sense of the meaning. In the few paragraphs I have read I have seen numerous lies and deceptions. The material is designed to keep one in their negative ego and in fear and paranoia. George Green is using Billie Meiers pictures of the Beamships and Laserguns from the Pleiades as a front for his phony channeling operation. The channel hooked George Green by sending him a letter saying he was one of 25 protected by commander supreme ahole of the universe, Hatton. There was an entity named Hatton who, years ago, came through a person named Richard Miller who started an organization called Solar Cross. Their information and personalities are entirely different. As an example of lies from the books, I will give you a good one. In the book Stargate Hatton says Samjase and Asket are from the Pleiades. Anyone who has studied the case knows that Samjase was from the Pleiades and that Asket is from the DAL Universe, one parallel to ours. Now come on, if Hatton is some kind of commander, wouldn't one think a commander would know which universe those ladies were flying their beamships from? The Hatton that is coming through American West Publishers is probably the entity of Calvin coming back to preach more hell and damnation. If any of you chose to rot your mind with Cosmic Calvinism go ahead read some Hatton. But please remember Hatton IS NOT CHANNELING!!!!! Channeling brings about a feeling of love and light, inspiration, upliftment, and increased life energy (more living). I recently learned something from a entity I am a new student of, named, Philip. Hanging out in thoughts and emotions of fear and its associates like death or imagined threats to survival cause the creation of lots of imagined death scenes. These activities generate sub personalities, these subpersonalites can become so strong they take over the body and lifetime by inflecting the genetic memory from past lives containing fear, death, etc onto the body. This subpersonality can completely idle the spiritual personality that came here for its specific goals. Also there is another phenomena that occurs. We are overly addicted to death. So the thoughts of fear and death cause psychological deaths to occur to feed the addiction. But here is the important point. Each one of these death thoughts we have causes the soul (life force) to separate more from the body. It is like the subpersonality has taken over and the soul-lifeforce-spirit withdraws because it knows there is not going to be any time or body to fulfill its purposes here. It is truly, literally a lost soul. That is the true sin of American West Publishing. They are not only turning people off to channeling, they are presenting the bleakest of an infinite number of possible futures. Few, if any of Hattons doomsday predictions have come true or ever will. One of their followers showed up at our Family of Light meeting and was selling welding glasses to block out the light because Hatton is telling him he should be prepared for the worst. I found out that what I call light and what others call light is entirely different. Don Showen BTW I printed 12 Meier photos in black and white on one 8x10 sheet. The 12 consist of 2 with Meier holding the Lasergun, 1 of Meier, the beautiful 1 of Samjases beamship, the one with the jet flying by the Beamship, the one with witnesses and a beamship in the same picture. 1 with 3 ships in it, 3 of a ship flying, 1 of the newer class of ship parked in Meiers front yard, 2 of that same ship flying by trees, and 1 of a ship touching a tree, and last a picture of the lady from the DAL universe, Asket. I am willing to share them with anyone who sends a SASE to Pleiadian Group 1030 Corvette Dr. San Jose, Ca. 95129 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Six In The News Again Message-ID: <1992Aug5.143625.23178@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1992 15:29:38 GMT Lines: 23 In article <139548.2A7F2CEA@paranet.FIDONET.ORG>, Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) writes... >ParaNet Information Services > >Reprinted from the Rocky Mountain News, Sunday, August 2, 1992, >Page 16 > >EX-ARMY INTELLIGENCE ANALYST SETS THE RECORD 'STRAIGHT' ON TRIP > >NOW HE TELLS US: GHOSTS MADE 'EM GO AWOL -- NOT JESUS IN A UFO > The six former intelligence analysts, all with top-secret >security clearances, were reported missing from their Augsburg, > The changes, he says, include numerous earthquakes and >volcano eruptions -- including a major eruption of Mount Rainier >in Washington state -- the devastation of New York City by gas >leak, and food and race riots in every major U.S. city that will >lead to martial law and economic collapse. > "When all this occurs, we'll be gone again," Davis says. Well OK... military intelligence analysts with top-secret security clearances are taking their orders from ouija boards... that explains a lot about government... sort of leaves you with a warm fuzzy feeling about the guys guarding our nukes, huh? :-) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!destroyer!ubc-cs!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!rutkows From: rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug5.150105.20628@ccu.umanitoba.ca> Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada References: <1992Aug5.115146.14670@unislc.uucp> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1992 15:01:05 GMT Lines: 104 In <1992Aug5.115146.14670@unislc.uucp> ach@unislc.uucp (Andy Hutton) writes: >I have been following the Crop Circle phenomenon for the last few years >in the media. This year however, there seems to be a lack of interest or >possibly activity. Has anyone seen or heard of anything going on lately? >I would appreciate any anecdotal information, opinions, or references >anyone may care to offer. Sure, Andy. Latest word is that about one formation is found per day in Britain, mostly in Wiltshire. Some interesting complexes, but mostly singles. The media are staying away in droves because of last year's scandal. Meanwhile, here in NA: 1992 North American Crop Circles and/or UGMs Reported to NAICCR as of 29 July 1992 920426 Jonesboro, Georgia - a "formation" of crop circles, "exactly" like those found in 1991 in the same location, was discovered. Source: Rosemary Ellen Guiley; Vance Tiede 9204?? , New Hampshire - UGMs were found following a small local flap of UFO reports. Source: Rosemary Ellen Guiley; Vance Tiede 920506 near Edmonton, Alberta - a "space cookie" UGM was discovered in a meadow. It is a perfect circle, 6 metres in diameter. Its depth varies from 5 cm to 31 cm. Grass is growing straight up both inside and outside the circle. No tracks were found leading to the area. The UGM is not a sinkhole. Source: Gordon Kijek 920525 Limerick, Pennsylvania - at least 12 "matted down" areas were found in a wheatfield north of Philadelphia. Three were circles about five feet in diameter, arranged in a triangle. One feature was "T-shaped". Soil samples taken by a UFO investigator "showed no irregularities". Geiger counter readings were also normal. Although a hoax was suspected by the UFO investigator, the owner of the field believes that the UGMs were caused by lodging, wind and fertilizer damage, and that "It happens every year". Source: Steve Bernheisel on FIDONET; UFO Newsclipping Service #275 920627 Raeford, North Carolina - a circle of flattened grass was found in a hay field following a CE2 UFO sighting. A loud noise, "like a freight train", was heard, and two witnesses ran to look out their front door. A object "the size of a swimming pool", "like orange windows lla around it", was in a field about 300 feet away from their house. When they went to call other witnesses, the object disappeared. Source: Patrick Kirol on FIDONET 9206?? , Massachusetts - a small area of flattened cattails was found in a marsh close to a major highway and reported as a crop circle. Source: Tom Randolph on DEC COM via INTERNET 920701 St. Adolphe, Manitoba - nine "horseshoe-shaped" patches of flattened grass were found on either side of a brook in a Winnipeg suburb. Because of rece storms and heavy rainfall, lodging was thought to be the cause Source: Guy Westcott; NAICCR 920705 Hobbema, Alberta - two ovals of flattened barley were found in a field after unusual lights were observed descending to the ground. The largest UGM has a major axis of 47 feet. The crop is pushed away uniformly from the centers of the patches, but the centers are "clumped", like breaking waves. Barley inside the circles is "white", and devoid of colour. It was later suggested that the areas were due to spilled seeds and fertilizer, combined with lodging. Source: Gord Kijek 920715 St. Adolphe, Manitoba - a field beside a highway was discovered to have numerous patches of flattened crop, in irregular patterns. The formations were discovered by the same person who found case 920701. Investigation by NAICCR and interviews with the owner of the field established that the crop had been laid down by strong winds and heavy rain. The person who discovered the formations was convinced that aliens created the flattened patches. Source: NAICCR 920721 Friedensruh, Manitoba - a farmer found a triangular area of flattened/swirled grass which was surrounded by an electric fence. The dimensions were 31x27x17 feet. Local residents could not explain the phenomenon. However, NAICCR investigators found evidence that animals had trampled the site. Source: NAICCR ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ P.S. NAICCR is interested in hearing about additional cases. -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca Royal Astronomical Society of Canada University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: Is this still alt.alien.visitors? Message-ID: Date: Wed, 05 Aug 92 15:02:16 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <1992Aug4.012507.18984@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Aug4.204145.12816@news.unomaha.edu> Lines: 20 In article <1992Aug4.204145.12816@news.unomaha.edu> jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) writes: >Hey Rods right! maybe we (those who post on alt.alien.visitors) should >post information about the 'Greys' on talk.politics.guns . I'm beginning >to feel as though this newsgroup has been invaded! > > Joseph A.Citro III > Let's do it! :-) cary@ursaminor.unm.edu My opinions, mine, mine, mine! I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go, "What, was THAT?!" Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11094 alt.alien.visitors:7947 sci.skeptic:28465 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!sdd.hp.com!nigel.msen.com!fmsrl7!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Back Message-ID: <-wwmz!k@lynx.unm.edu> Date: Wed, 05 Aug 92 15:24:24 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <63361@cup.portal.com> <63388@cup.portal.com> Lines: 17 In article <63388@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >They found a planet suitable for the creation of life and they started >a colossal experiment.... To discover the Ultimate Question about Life, The Universe and Everthing! ;) >End of Part 1. John Winston. Ithlial To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit eachother. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!destroyer!fmsrl7!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: A question for John_-_Winston Message-ID: Date: Wed, 05 Aug 92 15:35:44 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <62918@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul31.072901.16965@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> <63382@cup.portal.com> Lines: 18 In article <63382@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear U-all: I have been told that Multu posts about 20k of information >and is beloved of people on this net and in Europe. I's like to meet >him. It sounds like he has something to say and says it. >John Winston. 20k per what? second, day, century? To which news group? Where is Multu from specifically? Is the sky blue or does it just look that way? Just curious. Ithlial I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go, Xref: news.uiowa.edu misc.headlines:23230 sci.skeptic:28467 alt.activism:30643 alt.conspiracy:17453 alt.politics.bush:1396 alt.alien.visitors:7949 Newsgroups: misc.headlines,sci.skeptic,alt.activism,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.bush,alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!stanford.edu!hubcap!ncrcae!clodii!paul From: paul@clodii.Columbia.NCR.COM (Paul Fidler) Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug05.161737.16248@ncrcae.ColumbiaSC.NCR.COM> Nntp-Posting-Host: clodii.columbiasc.ncr.com Organization: NCR E&M Columbia SC References: <1992Jul31.011541.6582@bilver.uucp> Date: Wed, 05 Aug 92 16:17:37 GMT Lines: 22 In article <1992Jul31.011541.6582@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: > > > Stage 6: In February or March, 1993, President Bush will be > > assassinated by the conspirators and Vice President Dan Quayle > > will become President of the United States (this an option if > > Bush moves too slowly). The Constitution of the United States is > Sooooo.....Does this mean Clinton *doesn't* win? > URGENT: MAKE 30 COPIES AND MAIL TO MEDIA, POLITICIANS, CHURCHES, A man in Peoria, Il. did, and the next day he won $2,183,937.59 in the lottery. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7950 alt.conspiracy:17456 alt.activism:30650 sci.skeptic:28470 misc.headlines:23232 alt.politics.bush:1408 Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sample.eng.ohio-state.edu!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu!rjwade From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug5.164448.7849@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> Date: 5 Aug 92 16:44:48 GMT References: <1992Aug1.073525.15555@hubcap.clemson.edu> <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> Sender: news@noose.ecn.purdue.edu (USENET news) Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network Lines: 10 > >I for one am tired of seeing the claim that the right to bear penis >substitutes is guaranteed by our Constitution. The days when a militia >of gentleman farmers could determine the social order are dead. well then, you need to get the 2nd amendment removed from the constitution. but until then, we all have RKBA. and just because you think it isn't needed anymore doesn't mean that it isn't....or won't be...sometime in the future. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7951 talk.politics.guns:37517 Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!iWarp.intel.com|inews!sedona!bhoughto From: bhoughto@sedona.intel.com (Blair P. Houghton) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.politics.guns Subject: Re: The right to bare arms Message-ID: <12733@inews.intel.com> Date: 5 Aug 92 16:05:58 GMT References: <1992Aug4.183305.12587@uwm.edu> <1992Aug5.03942.13743@ms.uky.edu> Sender: news@inews.intel.com Organization: Intel Corp., Chandler, Arizona Lines: 20 In article archer@utkux1.utk.edu (T. Archer) writes: >Whether or not bare arms of any species is offensive to the public view is >irrelivant. THe right to bare arms is a legitimate form of self-expression >and is protected under the First Amendment. Indeed, the right to bare boobs is now codified thus, in New York State. Canada is attempting to follow suit. --Blair "Although the one woman I saw on CNN doing the interview raised her arm to take a swig of Crystal Spring or something, and revealed what appeared to be a large muskrat living on her armpit, so I'll defer any trips to upstate NY until the parka season, thanks..." Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: Is this still alt.alien.visitors? Message-ID: <1992Aug5.162256.14549@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <1992Aug4.012507.18984@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Aug4.204145.12816@news.unomaha.edu> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1992 16:22:56 GMT Lines: 20 In article <1992Aug4.204145.12816@news.unomaha.edu> jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) writes: >Hey Rods right! maybe we (those who post on alt.alien.visitors) should >post information about the 'Greys' on talk.politics.guns . I'm beginning >to feel as though this newsgroup has been invaded! > > Joseph A.Citro III > No Kidding! Yeah, this is still alt.alien.visitors. Just to prove it, here is a request for information: Can any one give me more information on the possibility that the "UFO Abductions" that we are all so fond of tallking about are the possible surfacing of ancient ancestral memories? Doe anyone know anything about ancient ancestral memories and their surfacing in later generations? See! No guns. Gregg. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu!rjwade From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) Subject: Re: Outlaw guns? NO! Register guns! YES! (was:Re: UFO "October Surprise" Message-ID: <1992Aug5.181812.9929@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> Sender: news@noose.ecn.purdue.edu (USENET news) Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network References: <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> <26159@life.ai.mit.edu> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1992 18:18:12 GMT Lines: 16 > >Well argued! However, you have completely missed the *true* debate. >The true debate is over handgun registration, manditory waiting >periods for handgun purchase, and elimination of "cop-killer" bullets. >Should we do any of these things? The NRA says "NO!" I say "YES!" to >all of them. If you, Gerry, want to enter into the real debate, then >perhaps you can argue why there should be no registration of handguns, >no waiting period to purchase them, and why we should continue to sell >copkiller bullets. > - Lee Campbell wake up lee. we do register hanguns, we do require waiting periods(in most states...unless you have a license...in which case you have already been fingerprinted and checked out), and what the hell are you talking about "copkiller" bullets. *any* bullet fired into someones head will likely kill them...cop or not. teflon bullets are not available where i am from. Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11095 alt.alien.visitors:7954 sci.skeptic:28474 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!wupost!gumby!yale!mintaka.lcs.mit.edu!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Rogue Agent) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Saga of the Family of Light I - Pleiadians13 Message-ID: <1992Aug5.175403.2821@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 5 Aug 92 17:54:03 GMT References: <63422@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 11 In article <63422@cup.portal.com> Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com writes: >The Saga of the Family of Light Part 1 [...] >EDITOR'S NOTE: In earlier tapes the Pleiadians explained that as we are >evolving biogenetically our DNA, which was a double helix, has now become a >triple helix. This is silly. I mean, go on all you want about 'light filaments' in DNA. But don't tell me DNA has three strands. It just makes you sound stupid. RA Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7955 talk.religion.newage:11096 sci.skeptic:28475 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!wupost!gumby!yale!mintaka.lcs.mit.edu!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Rogue Agent) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Re Hatton: CIA or ET Message-ID: <1992Aug5.181200.2940@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 5 Aug 92 18:12:00 GMT References: <63423@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 36 In article <63423@cup.portal.com> Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com writes: [...] >As an example of lies >from the books, I will give you a good one. In the book Stargate Hatton >says Samjase and Asket are from the Pleiades. Anyone who has studied the >case knows that Samjase was from the Pleiades and that Asket is from the >DAL Universe, one parallel to ours. Now come on, if Hatton is some kind of >commander, wouldn't one think a commander would know which universe those >ladies were flying their beamships from? Yeah, but you know beaurocracies...and what if they lied on their Interstellar Driver's Licence applications? I'd be embarrassed to admit I was from the DAL Universe, too - have you ever been there? Buncha damn hicks! They don't even get MTV! [...] >BTW I printed 12 Meier photos in black and white on one 8x10 sheet. The 12 >consist of 2 with Meier holding the Lasergun, 1 of Meier, the beautiful 1 >of Samjases beamship, the one with the jet flying by the Beamship, the one >with witnesses and a beamship in the same picture. 1 with 3 ships in it, 3 >of a ship flying, 1 of the newer class of ship parked in Meiers front yard, >2 of that same ship flying by trees, and 1 of a ship touching a tree, and >last a picture of the lady from the DAL universe, Asket. I am willing to >share them with anyone who sends a SASE to > >Pleiadian Group >1030 Corvette Dr. >San Jose, Ca. 95129 These sound way way cool - beamships, laserguns, people from the DAL Universe ...ya know, all the photos from my trip there were confiscated at Stargate Customs. Seriously though - anyone seen em? I suppose it'd be asking to much to impose on some kind soul to turn these into GIFs... RA Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!uunet!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Rogue Agent) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <1992Aug5.174301.2719@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 5 Aug 92 17:43:01 GMT References: <63302@cup.portal.com> <85155@netnews.upenn.edu> <63421@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 7 In article <63421@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >I don't have time to say anything. I'll to catch you later. >John Winston. I don't have anything to say either. Thought you'd like to know. Or not. RA Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11097 alt.alien.visitors:7957 sci.skeptic:28476 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!decuac!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!cpdw.enet.dec.com!rosch From: rosch@cpdw.enet.dec.com (Ray Rosch) Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Back Message-ID: <1992Aug5.173953.13985@nntpd.lkg.dec.com> Sender: usenet@nntpd.lkg.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1992 18:38:10 GMT Lines: 9 In article <63388@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes... >---"Do you come from another planet?" "Yes, I do," "Is this the first ROFL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! **** Disclaimer: Opinions expressed do not in any way reflect those of my employer **** Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11098 alt.alien.visitors:7958 sci.skeptic:28479 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!srg!spica!dpipes From: dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552) Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Back Organization: just me Date: Wed, 05 Aug 92 18:31:43 GMT Message-ID: <1992Aug05.183143.3037@srg.srg.af.mil> Followup-To: sci.skeptic References: <63361@cup.portal.com> <63388@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@srg.srg.af.mil (Usenet news user) Lines: 21 In article <63388@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >---"Do you come from another planet?" "Yes, I do," "Is this the first >time you have visited the Earth?" "Oh, no!" "Do you come here often?" "Very >often is the least I could say." >Claude came to talk with the alien for six consecutive days and talked >for one hour each time. He was told about our origin, our probable future >as well as the essential information regarding the universe and our place >in it. He was told that a long time ago, the secret of life was discovered >by successfully creating 100% synthetic human beings through a perfect >understanding of deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) or genetic engineering. >They found a planet suitable for the creation of life and they started >a colossal experiment. End of Part 1. John Winston. So much for the fossil record...Tell us, John, why is our DNA so close to that of the Great Apes, if this is true? Especially if they created us and THEN found the planet? John, you seem like a nice guy, but the science angle just doesn't add up. Oh well. David Pipes robear@digex.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: K-2 Radio Transmission Message-ID: <1992Aug5.172556.14834@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <1992Aug4.012507.18984@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Aug4.204145.12816@news.unomaha.edu> <1992Aug5.162256.14549@acd4.acd.com> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1992 17:25:56 GMT Lines: 8 I have just received the K-2 Radio Transmission recording. Its on a 60 minute tape and fills the entire thing. I ordered it from Advent for five bucks. Being somewhat of an SWL, I was interested to hear its content. Anyone else ever heard it? Gregg. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7960 talk.religion.newage:11099 sci.skeptic:28483 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Re Hatton: CIA or ET Message-ID: <1992Aug5.192042.10739@mprgate.mpr.ca> Date: 5 Aug 92 19:20:42 GMT References: <63423@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada Lines: 36 In article <63423@cup.portal.com>, Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com writes: |> Len asks |> >Does anyone out here have any information regarding George Green? There are |> >a growing number of people (myself included) who are beginning to feel that |> >Green is actively working with the CIA to produce disinformation regarding |> >UFOs and ETs. A good mystery always did stir up my circulation! :^) |> |> >Does anyone have any info on this guy? |> |> >Thank You |> >Len |> |> No folks, I did not pay Len to ask that! :-). But since he did I feel a |> necessity to respond to that publicly. I am a champion of channeling and |> consider Hatton to be the ahole of the universe, not in the least I too consider Hatton to be an ahole, although I wouldn't go as far as to call him the ahole of the Universe. Maybe just the ahole of the Galaxy. Sorry, I just couldn't resist this one. [...] |> Pleiadian Group |> 1030 Corvette Dr. |> San Jose, Ca. 95129 -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-*************** Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!palmj From: palmj@vccsouth26.its.rpi.edu (Jyri L. Palm) Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: Nntp-Posting-Host: vccsouth26.its.rpi.edu References: <63302@cup.portal.com> <85155@netnews.upenn.edu> <63421@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug5.174301.2719@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1992 19:54:17 GMT Lines: 13 rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Rogue Agent) writes: >In article <63421@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >>I don't have time to say anything. I'll to catch you later. >>John Winston. >I don't have anything to say either. Thought you'd like to know. Or not. > RA Nothing to be said over here also....nor time to say it... JP Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7962 talk.religion.newage:11100 sci.skeptic:28485 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!rpi!palmj From: palmj@vccsouth26.its.rpi.edu (Jyri L. Palm) Subject: Re: Hatton: CIA or ET Message-ID: <5j8x1dl@rpi.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: vccsouth26.its.rpi.edu References: <63423@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug5.181200.2940@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1992 19:59:29 GMT Lines: 9 rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Rogue Agent) writes: >These sound way way cool - beamships, laserguns, people from the DAL Universe ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Is this where that Apple System-7 "DAL" Extension came from? I always thought there was something "alien" about it... JP Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7963 alt.conspiracy:17466 alt.activism:30663 sci.skeptic:28486 misc.headlines:23244 alt.politics.bush:1444 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!wupost!emory!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary From: gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug5.170733.7561@ke4zv.uucp> Date: 5 Aug 92 17:07:33 GMT References: <1992Jul31.212244.20376@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug1.041842.19761@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> <1992Aug1.073525.15555@hubcap.clemson.edu> <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman) Organization: Gannett Technologies Group Lines: 44 In article <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> bunker@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Alex Bunker) writes: >In article <1992Aug1.073525.15555@hubcap.clemson.edu> trev@hubcap.clemson.edu (Trevor Bauknight) writes: >>hpky@gauguin.cc.rochester.edu (Hanan Polanski) writes: >> >>>(don't you think keeping semi-automatic weapons in the home is over-kill?I-) >> >>No...why? I, for one, don't want a populace incapable of armed insurrection >>against our government, however benign or tyranical it is. Semiautomatics, >>automatics, cannons, bazookas, grenades, whatever... >> >>Why would you have a problem with law-abiding citizens owning semiautomatic >>weapons? What harm could it possibly do? >> > >This is where I have to cut in look at the statistics in the real >world. The USA has a murder rate 10X higher than any of the >other democracies. IS IT really worth this "right to bear >arms" crap? how are Germans,french,Canadians,UKers more >opressed than Americans? They have low crime rates and >stringent firearm laws. In what way are they any worse off >because of this? I can think of a lot of ways they are >BETTER off... The US does have a murder rate higher than Western Europe, including Switzerland where each household is *required* to have an automatic weapon and ammunition available for possible national defense. The US has a murder rate higher than Israel where citizens carry automatic weapons in their cars and on their persons. 20% of US murders are committed with guns. Subtract out five US cities, those with the most firearms restrictions, and *total* murder rates for the remainder of the country are lower than Western Europe. 25 States allow open carry of firearms on the person, and those 25 states have the lowest crime rates in the US. Some Americans are very violent people regardless of what weapons they have, and over 1.5 million of those people's crimes are thwarted each year by citizens with firearms. The police can't protect you. In fact they are not even legally required to *try* to protect you. Their job is to come in and clean up *after* the fact. It's each citizen's legal and moral duty to protect themselves from predators whether those predators wear a mask or a badge. Gary (Yes, I am the NRA. As if you couldn't guess.) Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7964 alt.conspiracy:17469 alt.activism:30666 misc.headlines:23246 alt.politics.bush:1448 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!mips!darwin.sura.net!europa.asd.contel.com!emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary From: gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Keywords: No brain, no pain. Message-ID: <1992Aug5.180757.8046@ke4zv.uucp> Date: 5 Aug 92 18:07:57 GMT References: <1992Aug1.073525.15555@hubcap.clemson.edu> <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> <1992Aug3.234425.28012@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman) Organization: Gannett Technologies Group Lines: 35 In article <1992Aug3.234425.28012@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> amorgan@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Crunchy Frog) writes: > >HEY FUCKHEAD!!!! (Yeah, you). > >Take a look at the list of newsgroups at the top of this posting. Do >you see talk.politics.guns up there? No. Do you see any >newsgroup that relates to guns up there? No. Does this thread >have *anything* to do with the title or newsgroups? No. > >Can I make a suggestion? Take this thread out of here. To quote amorgan, a great American; "HEY FUCKHEAD!!!! (Yeah, you)." The Greys are going to get us if we aren't armed, thus alt.alien.visitors. The anti-gunners are conspiring to overthrow the US Constitution, thus alt.conspiracy. We pro-gunners are real activists, thus alt.activism. Sci.skeptic doesn't belong, they don't believe in anything so I've deleted them. Misc.headlines needs a break from Jack_S and his merry band of Israel apologists, so we'll stay here. The Presidental election is crucial to maintaining our rights, so alt.politics.bush stays. The only group that needn't be bothered is talk.politics.guns, they've heard it all before. So I deleted them. Let the games begin! Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7965 alt.conspiracy:17470 alt.activism:30667 misc.headlines:23247 alt.politics.bush:1449 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!mips!darwin.sura.net!europa.asd.contel.com!emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary From: gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Subject: Re: guns and criminals Message-ID: <1992Aug5.183928.8223@ke4zv.uucp> Date: 5 Aug 92 18:39:28 GMT References: <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> <1992Aug4.015333.21023@s1.gov> Reply-To: gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman) Organization: Gannett Technologies Group Lines: 74 In article <1992Aug4.015333.21023@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes: > > My preference is for defense rather than offense. If one is >seriously concerned about being shot, then one should wear a helmet >and a bulletproof vest (or a flak jacket). For a gun, the advantage >goes to whoever can use one first, and with a small gun, it is easy to >pull one out and point it in a snap. Furthermore, a bulletproof vest >is intended to stop _all_ bullets, including Friendly Fire. Unfortunately, any bullet "proof" vest that you can actually wear in daily life *won't* stop most bullets. Military flak vests are designed to stop relatively slow and big pieces of shrapnel, they don't do a great job on bullets either. Besides, you're just asking to get shot in the face. A small concealed gun *is* easier to pull and fire quickly than a big awkward gun. It's also more likely to be on your person when you need it than a rifle or big bulky pistol. It is a better *defensive* weapon than *offensive* weapon. That's why the military issues them as *last ditch* weapons for otherwise better armed troops. > As to gun restriction legislation, I think we should have a >system of gun permits for buying guns -- and ammunition also. One >shouldn't forget that a gun is useless without ammo. How is it nobody >considers needing a license just to drive a car an unforgivable threat >to freedom? The gun permit system should be straightforward, and >should allow anyone without any history of violent behavior to get a >gun. You don't need a license to buy gasoline, a very deadly weapon as the families of the 54 killed in the NYC club arson can attest. Federal law *already* requires that you swear that you don't have a criminal record or have a history of mental illness before you can purchase a gun. The problem is that the government *refuses* to set up a system to *verify* the truthfulness of your statement. The NRA has backed the instant background check with privacy restrictions against abuse for a long time, but the anti-gunners want waiting periods and lists. The NRA doesn't think either is useful or desirable. When faced with an iminent threat, a waiting period could get you killed. Lists are tools of confiscation. When the Nazi war machine roled into a country, they seized the lists of people with firearms and confiscated them. While the Nazis are (mostly) gone, their mentality lives on, even in some of our politicians. > If any guns are worth banning or severely restricting, it is >the smaller guns. Rifles and any bigger guns are much more difficult >to hide, and are just as useful for (say) defending one's home. I >think that the National Rifle Association should stick to pushing >rifles :-). Sorry, most assualts do *not* occur in the home. Lugging around a large rifle may serve as a deterrent, but it's just as likely to get you shot *first* before you're robbed. A rifle is slow and awkward to be brought to bear on an assailent. If you are far enough away to use a rifle, you probably aren't justified in shooting. Being on the defensive means you have to wait for a palpable threat before you can *react*. Rapid reaction is a must if you wish to survive. The handgun is the best *reactive* weapon available. Rifles are wonderful *offensive* weapons, that's why the military issues them to troops. > And one should learn ways of self-defense using one's own >body, so one can deal with assailants not equipped with guns. Sure. But you never know in advance what's going to go bang in your face. A knife is a very deadly weapon in skilled hands, even a tire iron can kill you despite all your karate lessons. Better to assume *any* attacker is armed and intending you deadly harm. Your intent must be to *stop* the attacker cold, nothing portable is better for that task than a handgun skillfully used. Gary Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ucselx!newshub.sdsu.edu!moho!joel From: joel@moho.sdsu.edu (Joel Wedberg) Subject: Re: Execute the Messenger (was: Is Bigfoot a Visitor?) Message-ID: <1992Aug5.211712.13718@newshub.sdsu.edu> Sender: news@newshub.sdsu.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: moho.sdsu.edu Organization: San Diego State University, College of Sciences X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL3 References: <1992Aug5.144308.13195@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1992 21:17:12 GMT Lines: 36 : Joel,Greg,Robert & the rest of you closeminded assuming pinheads, ^^^^^^^^ There turns out to be a difference between assuming and evaluating objectively. There turns out to be a BIG difference between a person who accepts on faith until an assertion is proven wrong and a critical thinker. : I can truly see why more people will not come forward to tell about their : experiences. Most will probably take them to the grave rather than be : subjected to character asassination & ridicule.We will never get anywhere : in trying to figure out some of the most confounding myteries on this : globe. With people such as yourselves, ready to pounce on anyone that has : an experience that you can't : understand. So, anyway, there I was, and it was...an ALIEN. I pinched myself, I jumped around, I sang the national anthem, fasted, meditated, prayed, juggled, had intercourse, flew in a blimp - but IT WAS STILL THERE! OMIGOD - a real alien! Now, there's a mystery. And don't you dare ridicule it. Because they're really around, and...ssshhhhh....draw closer... (whisper) They tell me to do things... : As far as it being a b.s. story..........Read between the lines -FOAD- Now that really hurts. : : Rod : Joeloid Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!e2big.mko.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) Subject: Re: Is this still alt.alien.visitors? Message-ID: <1992Aug5.202813.3058@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1992 21:24:43 GMT Lines: 16 In article <1992Aug5.162256.14549@acd4.acd.com>, gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes... >In article <1992Aug4.204145.12816@news.unomaha.edu> jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) writes: >Can any one give me more information on the possibility that the "UFO >Abductions" that we are all so fond of tallking about are the possible >surfacing of ancient ancestral memories? Doe anyone know anything about >ancient ancestral memories and their surfacing in later generations? > >See! No guns. > >Gregg. I think it's true ... and I'd like to hear more about ancient ancestral memories and their surfacing in later generations too. mary Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.activism:30671 alt.alien.visitors:7968 alt.conspiracy:17474 alt.politics.bush:1470 misc.headlines:23251 sci.skeptic:28497 Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.bush,misc.headlines,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!sdd.hp.com!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ucselx!crash!benno From: benno@crash.cts.com (Benno Eichmann) Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Date: 5 Aug 92 20:06:44 GMT Message-ID: References: <1992Jul31.212244.20376@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug1.041842.19761@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> <1992Aug1.073525.15555@hubcap.clemson.edu> <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> Lines: 17 In regards to all this, has anyone heard about the LEIU(Law Enforcement Investigative Unit) with considerable power in regards to insurections on local USA soil? Are they training special members in secrecy just to the west of New York? Is the disarming of the public a desirable outcome for such authorities which may act under FEMA style constitution suspension? Why are hidden departments putting such large funds into these issues considerations with little or no constitutional public reveiw? Do the Executive Orders really serve the public and constitution well? Questions, questions? Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!demon!cix.compulink.co.uk!asm332 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors From: asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk (Sean Eaton) Subject: Re: Is this still alt.alien.visitors? Cc: asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk Reply-To: asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1992 22:27:12 +0000 Message-ID: Sender: usenet@gate.demon.co.uk Lines: 20 In article dzecchini@csi.compuserve.com writes: >Geez, you finally get Winston replying in a halfy-decent format, and Not for long - the hiatus is only temporary. Check this JW clasic out and be prepared for further bombardment... Quote article <63292@cup.portal.com> from John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com: >Dear Lovers of Star TreK: I've been off the net since July 31 so if >you've sent me E-mail you might try me again. It seems they didn't get >my check through the mail. Brace yourself for when the cheque clears :-) -Sean. warlock%spuddy@uknet.ac.uk | asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk -Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatus nunc- Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!demon!cix.compulink.co.uk!asm332 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors From: asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk (Sean Eaton) Subject: New Zealand sighting. Cc: asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk Reply-To: asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1992 22:27:14 +0000 Message-ID: Sender: usenet@gate.demon.co.uk Lines: 12 Does anyone have information on the UFO sighting by a TV film crew flying over New Zealand around 1978 ? I was young at the time and I can't remember much about it except that they were sent to investigate unidentified lights that had been appearing for a couple of weeks. They had just set their equipment up, when one of these lights appeared ! -Sean. asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk | warlock%spuddy@uknet.ac.uk "Zeus, is there no end to your vengence ?" - Ulysses 31 Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11101 alt.alien.visitors:7971 sci.skeptic:28505 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!merrimack.edu!caina From: caina@merrimack.edu Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Get Off John's Back Please! Message-ID: <1992Aug5.161714.2064@merrimack.edu> Date: 5 Aug 92 16:17:14 GMT References: <1992Jul31.220107.25347@isrc.sandia.gov> <63200@cup.portal.com> Organization: Merrimack College, No. Andover, MA, USA Lines: 17 In article <63200@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Give me 12 people like > R2D2 and we can change the world. > I'm sorry, R2D2 is unavailable for any activities. Since his conversion to the Dark Side, Lord Vader has had him on a very tight and rigorous schedule. Tommorrow, the little guy will be performing with New Kids on the Block. Friday, he'll be on Geraldo in a segment entitled "Droids who cross dress as Toyotas". Of course all next week he'll be torturing the remaining members of the alliance. If you wish to attempt to contact him, please see his agent, Major Snivel, and he will arrange an appointment for you. But in most cases, your requests will be ignored and your planet conquered. But that's a different story. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7972 alt.paranormal:5595 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!sun-barr!male.EBay.Sun.COM!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr From: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) Newsgroups: ba.seminars,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Viewing High Strangeness Material Message-ID: Date: 6 Aug 92 00:21:24 GMT Reply-To: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM Distribution: usa Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 18 NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com The following notice is being posted for a friend. Please reply to her and not to the poster. --- A private remote-viewing group of scientists and engineers is now accepting new members. If you are intellectually curious you will enjoy this unusual form of recreation. The material we will view includes well-substantiated incidents of anomalous aerial phenomena. No previous remote-viewing experience is necessary. For information please call Shelley Thomson, 510/644-2874 (Berkeley, California). --- jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net Jon Roland Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A, Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141 Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11102 alt.alien.visitors:7973 sci.skeptic:28518 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Back Message-ID: <63465@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 92 18:38:06 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul29.185219.29352@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> <45868@shamash.cdc.com> <63079@cup.portal.com> <2379@israel.nysernet.org> <63292@cup.portal.com> <63361@cup.portal.com> <63388@cup.portal.com> Lines: 11 Dear Humans: There has been a slight change in the names of the runner of the third weekly Astral Convoy. The person whoes first name starts with the letter D (D.) was then called R2D2 now wants to be called Bridgit because of her study of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table. So Bridgit it will be. Oh yes, last week she informs me that she did see and entity in her room and it wasn't the bogey man. Don't laugh I just report the facts as they come in. The person we have called E. is actually in Hawii. We'll call him E. the Adept because he is adept in ESP. J. is still with us but the lady in England hasn't made up her mind yet. Shannon is out somewhere trying to get a picture of his or herself for me. This sounds a lot like the comic routine called Who's on First. John Winston Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <63466@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 92 18:56:36 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63302@cup.portal.com> <85155@netnews.upenn.edu> <63421@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug5.174301.2719@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Lines: 11 Dear Ley People: Here's some more information from Shaari about Ley Lines and the Nasca Lines.----So what is happening is that grids with their {light} were brought from another dimension, from another universe, through a black hole, was was waiting in position around the earth's orbit, and that the Nasca Lines were carved into {earth's surface} as a registration marker to the exact specifications when these line grids were brought into configuration and alignment. {A} 144 different trianglar grids could be, their energy could be anchored into the earth, could be calibrated into the earth, so they would maintain that level of balance and integrity, from another dimension here on this dimension, as some of you know, {if} your working with higher levels of energy, sometimes it's----JW. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <63467@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 92 19:09:17 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63302@cup.portal.com> <85155@netnews.upenn.edu> <63421@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug5.174301.2719@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Lines: 10 ---very difficult for you to keep and apply that resonance of energy in the earth plane. So what they needed to do, was create a system of registration which are the Nasca Lines, and with anchoring this energy from another dimension so that they could build these triangular grids, and so that then they could build 144 of them, which then were moved over in Peru to Machu Picchu and then were assembled close to Machu Picchu at a place called {S.P. Ilente Tiambo} and they were assembled there, moved over to Machu Picchu and at Machu Picchu that energy was {moved on to them} and then the grids multiplied 144 X144 X144 until they surrounded the entire planet some 25,000 years ago. End Part 6. JW. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a3917 From: Steve_MacDonald@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve MacDonald) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Moon Activities?y Message-ID: <14026@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 6 Aug 92 02:11:15 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Distribution: world Lines: 9 Just to let people know there was an incident in the 11th century where several monks in England saw a large explosion on the moon. It scared the crap out of them and they thought the world was going to end. It could be very possible that they witnessed a large alien ship crashing on the moon or more likely just regular alien lunar activity. no guns Steve Macdonald Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7977 alt.conspiracy:17502 alt.activism:30695 sci.skeptic:28521 misc.headlines:23280 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.po Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys From: garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <8B91oB1w165w@bluemoon.rn.com> Sender: bbs@bluemoon.rn.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) References: <1992Aug2.060950.29308@cbnewse.cb.att.com> Date: Wed, 05 Aug 92 07:56:06 EDT Lines: 11 I personally don't believe in guns...I say this even though I used a toy gun to commit a "crime"...However, when the government actually tries to get away with stuff like this, and in my own personal case actually does get away with it, I think about a statement a friend of mine made some years ago...He said, "Guns made America free!"...You know something...He was right... Gary Stollman This is from garys@bluemoon.rn.com who doesn't have his (or her) own obnoxious signature yet From: mort@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Jeff Mortensen) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1992 07:07:51 GMT Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <20550043@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!hpscdc!hplextra!hpfcso!mort Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors References: <1992Jul31.011541.6582@bilver.uucp> Lines: 19 In alt.alien.visitors, wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) writes: > > [gobbledeegook deleted] [and other humous crap] I sure hope this happens, it would make life much more exciting. Sorta like living in a sf book...... ............................................................................. Jeffrey Mortensen //////////// //////// //////// //////// /// /// Hewlett-Packard Co ||/ ||/ ||/ |/ |/ ||/ ||/ ||/ ||/--||/ Fort Collins, CO ||/ ||/ ||/ |/ |/ ||////||/ ||/ \\/-// mort@hpfcso.fc.hp.com ||/ ||/ |/ |/ ||/ \\/ ||/ |||/ ||/ ||/ |//////|/ ||/ \\/ ||/ |||/ IF YOUR TO BUSY TO LAUGH,/^^^^^^^^/^^^^^^^^/^^^^^^^^/^^^^^^^^/^^^^^^^^^/^^^^ THEN YOUR TO BUSY!!!!!!!/^^^^^^^^/^^^^^^^^/^^^^^^^^/^^^^^^^^/^^^^^^^^^/^^^^^ ........................................................................... Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!Jeffrey_-_Papineau From: Jeffrey_-_Papineau@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: THE NATURE OF REALITY(was Is Bigfoot a Visitor?) Message-ID: <63490@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 92 00:48:24 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world Lines: 179 I feel that I finally have to make a public comment here. You know, this group could use a heavy dose of humility, empathy, and intelligence! How can people comment on subjects they obviously know nothing about? If you have seen a UFO, then you have made the prerequisit, or if you have read a few books. But you still don't know --it. You have to do your home- work girls and boys. Rod wanted to relate his experience, and that is what this news group is for, to share information. But after his initial post, the rest of what I have to wade through is unadulterated nonsense! I want to learn something, not listen to others moronic interpretations of hi experience, since they were not there. All that really matters is that Rod had an experience that he wishes to share with us in a sincere manner. I have seen nothing here to disuade me that he is telling the truth as he believes it. What is appropriete at that point is to ask him questions: Could it be that you were still dreaming? That is a good question, but please don't force that idea upon him, me, or the rest of the readers. We have to create a forum in which people will in fact feel comfortable to share there experiences. I personally am not interested in ANYTHING a self-proclaimed SHLEPTIC has to say! He has his mind made up before you even tell him one word of your experience. That is not a posture of openness and fairness by any measure. Been reading a bit too much of Mr. Klass I would imagine. CIA trash is all that man publishes, direct from Langley. I simpley wish we could refrain from ridicule of those brave enough to bare their experiences with those who are really interested in this subject. I mean, that is why we take the time to associate here, is it not? Ridicule is the protective barrier which the timid or the ignorant erect between themselves and any possibility which frightens or disturbs them. All great men have been scorned and ridiculed by some. But we can be above that here, surely. It is easier to ridicule than to investigate, but it is not as profitable. Now, on to the nature of reality. Make no mistake, the biggest secret in this world is THE NATURE OF REALITY. Governments will kill to keep the masses in a mind-set that promotes their remaining in power. We are bombarded daily by advertisers that would have us the nature of reality is "Why ask why? Bud Dry !" This is the nature of most peoples reality at this time. What they see on the TV, what is available in the newspapers, and what they are taught in school. Well it's time someone told most of you that everything you learned in school is wrong. Think about it; we were taught Columbus was a national hero. We were taught that we could trust our government, and we at one time were taught that the electron was pretty much the extent of sub-atomic structure. Well, none of it is true. Science is usually wrong, and redefines itself every 1000, 100, or 50 years or so. In 1945, those in the rocket science field were considered daft for thier beliefs that we could put a man in orbit. Put a man on the moon? Call the white-coats and get the straight- jacket! Well, we see who was right and who was wrong. Those of the scientific establishment who espouse the generally held convensional wisdom are doomed t o be proven wrong most of the time as history will bear out, time and time again.. Copernicus, Galileo, even Newton were up against the great resistance of medi ocre minds. They were heritics, and laughed at, but in the end, thier seeming ly wild ideas held water, until the next generation came along to prove them incorrect on at least some counts. So our reality is ever changing on the scientific front, and is NEVER really correct, and never will be until we come to understand the balance of wisdom and universal spirituality. If you have an open mind, and you really look into UFO's, it is amazing were it will lead you. Astronomy, Political Science, Aironautics, Physics, Spirituality, Theology, the list is so long that NO ONE PERSON CAN OR WILL EVER understand all that is implicated to study its full ramifications. I would suggest that we all hold are opinions in check for a while as we soak up some of the background that is really needed to investigate this subject, so hit the books! Matrix II - has anyone seen this one? It's pretty recent, and looks to be an underground work, since it has to ISBN # and is not even really bound in the usual manner of a book. But it really blows the lid off of this subject. It gives accounts from at least 5 different sources regarding Dulce! And it lists a location for the underground base that ain't were people have been looking for it! It has interviews with Lear and Lazar. Lear seems convinced that AIDS is man-made, and that the government intends to destroy 75% of worlds population with it. It makes a great deal of sense, and he is certain ly not the first to speculate that as the world's population doubles in the next decade, computer simulations done by our government would indicate the planet could never support the numbers the future holds. There has to be a way to control the population of the planet, or everybody dies. Along comes bio-engineering. I went to see Michael Lindemann speak recently, and you really owe it to yourself to read his stuff if you want to learn just what may be going on. He relates the meeting in 1969 in Chyanne Mt., CO. where the military and the Wise Men (Jason Soc.) met and discussed a world that had a reordering of priorities. If there was no cold war, we could drop our defence posture and industries, and base a world economy on alternative, safe energy sources and environmental conservation, and feeding of the world masses, as well as birth control and disease erradication. Heaven on Earth. And they decided it wouldn't work. Because it would mean a future that was impossible to predict or control. Much as Copernicus caused the Roman Calolic Church to lose its control of the Western world by the ushering in of Science and the Industrial Age, these " New Age" Ideas would cause the military control structures to become quite secondary, if not obsolete altogether. Of course, those in power to not tend to relinquish it without attempting to keep it in some way first. So the first biggest secret held by the "Olympians" as M. Lindemann calls them, is that there is a tremendous effort being taken to control our reality. What we perceve to be real, what we imagine to be the outer limits of possiblity, and what we imagine to be utter impossiblity, are tightly controlled by the media, our schools (that are funded by the Feds), and our pillars of conventional wisdom, however well intentioned. The second greatest secret is that we can control our reality. An in depth study of spiritualiy, the perineal philosophy, ALL religeons and anceint teachings tells one that what we imagine we can cause to become our relaity. Jesus wanted to teach us this very point. That we are immortal. that we can transend the bounds of our empirical bondage if only we believe that we can. the Hindu Yogis, Buddha, the Zen masters, and Mohammed, they all knew this well. And, the most advanced alien races would teach us this as well, if only we wanted to listen. We don't need science or technology, because utimately, we can, by power of mind, specifically will, develope the capability to manifest anything we desire, just as Jesus could pull bread from the ether. REad Life and Teachings of the Masters of the Far East series if you have a hard time with this one, but leave your opinions in your ear. It simply does not matter what you think, it won't change the truth of what I am saying. The 3rd most tightly held secret is the existance of extra-terrestrial vis- itation. This is where things become much more fuzzy for me, and where I feel we need to spend a great deal of time researching. Because the masters have already done most of the spiritual work for us. WE just have to tune into them, and we have that. And we can know that we create our own reality, so we just tell Madison Ave. and the Feds to get hosed, and let us form our own opinions and destiny's, so that's pretty easy too. But what about the coming earth changes? What of SDI and what is it's true intended purpose? What about AIDS and the secret governments true intentions for the future of mankind? What about the greys and Dr. John Mack of Harvard that says that as many as 3 million Americans may have been abducted, but have had their memories scrubbed and simply don't remember the experience? What about how the CIA recruted the Gestappo Intelligence force to use as spys for the coming cold-war era, and there power circles in modern-day US? What about CIA black projects funded by Cocain running, heroin running, BCCI money laundering, arms sales, and the bilking of the S&L's, not to mention the siphoning of funds from cover programs like SETI and the B2 /Steath projects? We can come to understand reality only when we understand that these and questions are the questions that must be asked, and the answers will not be the most easily found, convenient, digestible fodder we find laying about! UFO's ain't ball lighting, they are not Venus, and they sure as hell aint' in the imaginations of millions of people who have witnessed them world-wide. And what about the contactees? They are our greatest treasure in this struggle for knowledge. they would be silenced by our governments. But we can nurture their awareness among us, and foster a supportive atmosphere that allows their information to come out so that we can finally know the truth. If what they tell us is backed up by physical sightings, physical evedence, and what telepathic messages are recieved by dozens of psychics in this country, then we had better take notice and realize that there is very good reason to give high probabilty to some of their information. There simply are too many sources of this information to blow it off. but most of us never get that far, because it takes a lot of work and nobody is goint to do it for you. the media, controlled by intelligence plants at high possitions, ain't going to do it for you. The university, with their funds from Federal, State, and Alumnis institutuions won't do it for you. And your mama won't do it for you, unless I miss my guess, the only person that can lift you out of ignorance is yourself. So hit the books, and quit the mindless crap! I'm tired of it! Available from East-West books of Menlo Park, CA: Matrix II - Val Valerian The Fellowship - Brad Stieger UFO's; Six Viewpoints - Michael Lindemann The Ra Materials Aliens Among Us ExtraTerrestrials Among Us Cosmic Top Secret - W. Hamilton Behold a Pale Horse - W. Cooper Pleadies series - Stevens The Promise - Dr. Fred Bell Secret Life - Jacobs the monuments of Mars - Hoagland UFO crash at Roswell - Randle UFO crash at Aztec - stevens UFO from Venus - Stevens And many others too numerous to mention. M. Lindemanns 2020 Group has a new book that everyone should read: UFO's and the New World Order - 2020 Group, 3463 State Street., Ste.264, Santa Barbara, CA 93105 Remember, the average 99% of Americans read less than 1 book per year. The government is counting on that. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Alien with a Gun Message-ID: <35074.2189218906@kcbbs.gen.nz> From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Date: 6 Aug 92 09:44:34 GMT Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 19 Has anyone spotted one?. An alien with a gun that is. Even an alien after a gun. What about an alien named gun? Or if nothing else an alien with a ray-gun If not then maybe it's because thier tired of not reading about themselves but instead seeing all this debate on primitive Earth weapons by primitive Earth animals. If the alien isnt alt by the gun visiting or visited then they maybe coming to get you...................... ************************ ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL? ************************* Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Jeffrey_-_Papineau From: Jeffrey_-_Papineau@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO books Message-ID: <63491@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 92 01:27:09 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <1992Jul23.193217.510@news.Hawaii.Edu> <62922@cup.portal.com> Lines: 21 Stranger At The Command: page Pentagon by Frank Stranges. other comments on this subject. Jeff- I can also recommend this book. I have not read it thru yet, but there that's is a used copy with my name on it at East-West Books in Menlo Park that I can't wait to pickup. As for the Archer, it's back to the shooting range for this bent arrow. For him I would recommend the Law of ONE, the Ra Material. In it, and many other countless books (1000's) including Jacques Vallee, they happen to mention a concept of life in other forms, and other densities of dimension; while most people tend to think of life in 3 dimensional terms. But who are we to define the limits of a limitless universe? It seems to me the Arser rarely adds much new information to this news group and likes to disagree with anyone that does not fit into his institu tionally derived limits of reality. See also the thread on Bigfoot for my other comments on this subject. Jeff- that's Mr. Papineau to you Arser. Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Jeffrey_-_Papineau From: Jeffrey_-_Papineau@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Hatton: CIA or ET? Message-ID: <63494@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 92 01:56:02 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world Lines: 15 Thankyou to Mr. Sutton for a very inlightening and educational answer to this original poster's question. I must say that it was the " next message" for me and I have been waiting for that information for a long time. It's always very difficult to know how to adapt/react to messages of the final days, and your insight was invaluable. We must not contiually separate our life-force from our being by fear of death and false survivalist worries. I know that for me it is very easy to start stock-piling and buying guns, etc. but it really won't make a lot of difference in the end, and can really separate me from my innerself to center on these issues. As for the rest of the replys to this thread; snot nosed and moronic. I reall y don't appreciate having to wade thru such crap to get to the sincere posts. Why don't you "kids" go play on the freeway? Jeff- That's Sir to you; rouge. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7983 alt.paranormal:5601 Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: ba.seminars,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Viewing High Strangeness Material Message-ID: <63493@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 92 01:43:39 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: usa References: Lines: 13 In article jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) writes: | [...] | A private remote-viewing group of scientists and engineers is now accepting | new members. If you are intellectually curious you will enjoy this unusual | form of recreation. The material we will view includes well-substantiated | [...] What is "remote-viewing"? Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7984 talk.religion.newage:11104 sci.skeptic:28528 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Jeffrey_-_Papineau From: Jeffrey_-_Papineau@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Hatton: CIA or ET Message-ID: <63495@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 92 02:06:31 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <63423@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug5.181200.2940@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <5j8x1dl@rpi.edu> Lines: 22 I forgot to mention that much of what Hatonn sez in the UFO-Gate book is true, but it's lifted straight out of Coopers book, etc. Cooper even threaten ed to sue Green over it; reported in UFO magazine. the part where he is constantly referring to those that will "eat crow, or the raven" are crack-ups. Anyone that understands channeling would know that this is not how christ-plane beings communicate. On the other hand, Hatonn is actually available to channel, and is in the RA Material; the Law of ONE, and has an entirely different personality. As to motivations of Mr. Green, he is written up in this months UFO and there will be a conituing saga in that rag about his exploits. But I still enjoyed much of the book. The Kennedy assasination plot that sez he was killed becaus e he wanted to inform the public of alien/government agreements/bases, and caputered ships is entirely believable. Since the next best motivation is that the industrialists building helicopters for Vietnom wanted him killed is just to vanilla in my mind. Much more likely he was going to inform the public of various tightly held CIA secrets, disband the agency, and create a true free republic and a dynasty of Kennedy leaders would have followed, something the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the agency, and the multinationals with multibillion dollar underground base contracts didn't want to see happen. You think I'm nuts? READ MATRIX! Jeff- Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien descriptions, why the greys?? Message-ID: <1992Aug6.084919.26652@crc.ac.uk> Date: 6 Aug 92 08:49:19 GMT References: <1992Aug2.213702.7219@nmsu.edu> <24510@castle.ed.ac.uk> Sender: news@crc.ac.uk Reply-To: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK Lines: 59 Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium In article <24510@castle.ed.ac.uk>, fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) writes: > rscott@spock.NMSU.Edu (Joseph Good) writes: > > >One theory that has been going around for quite a while is our facination with > >'grey' type aliens is due to the movie "Close Encounters". I haven't paid much > >attention to this at all, and I'm sure the flames will be thrown my way in just > >a few minutes, so.. flame on. > > >With the publicity the movie got, it wouldn't be that far fetched to try and > >link the vast amount of 'grey' abduction and sightings to the movie. I'm sure > >that it has been said the movie was made to look like 'greys', and in that > >case.. cool. > > Well, some of us will be old enough to remember that the original > version of Close Encounters didn't show the aliens/inside of the > spacecraft. (Well, ok, you could see them through the light/mist, but > there were no details.) So the question is: were there reports of Greys > between the release of the first version and the extended edition? > > FoFP [some stuff deleted] The 3 foot 6 guys with big eyes, no hair and an attitude problem (commonly called the Greys) have been about in the UFO Literature since well before Close Encounters. If you consider the Betty and Barney Hill case (September 1961) and held by many to be the start of the Abduction phenomenon, the creatures described are somewhat similar. The drawings done as I recall were not very good. Going back further in history, we have the Kelly Hopkinsville (?Kentucky) of (?)1949. A group of farmers described a gun battle with several small creatures. These creatures were similar to the Greys but had large ears. Very good drawings (i.e. artistically very acceptable, no comment on accuracy) were produced which have been widely used in both the UFO and other press. It should be stressed that many different types of 'aliens' are reported by contactees and abductees. MUFON has a list where they identify at least for different types of 'alien'. (I think this was posted not so long ago by Don Allen). Whilst it may appear that most if not all abduction reports involve the Greys, I believe this not to be a true reflection of reports. I believe that it reflects more the success of Budd Hopkins, David Jacobs and Whitley Strieber in publisizing their particular work. John Spencer in the book perspectives (MacDonald/Futura, London, 1990) spent a great deal of time looking at what he believes to be the origins of abductions. He spends some time looking at different types of reported 'aliens'. It appears that the majority of witnesses investigated by Budd see the abduction as a negative thing in their lives, whilst many of Leo Sprinkle's witnesses seem to treat it as a positive experience. Steve. -- (Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. Phone: +44 81 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Jeffrey_-_Papineau From: Jeffrey_-_Papineau@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Six In The News Again Message-ID: <63496@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 92 03:53:00 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <1992Aug5.143625.23178@engage.pko.dec.com> Lines: 79 A lot of you kids have not been around long enough to be toilet trained for more than a few years, so I'll give you a break while dad puts you through school... But you really need to consider just how many sources there are for "end- times" information and how close it just might be to occuring. Sources include left wing political types given to conspiracy theories who have a need to explain to themselves how everything got so f--ked in such a short decade as the 80's. We had the 60's, and even though JFK/RFK/MLK assasinations really hurt them, things seemed better than when the republican party took control for the last 20 years and decimated the economy, public appathy to government went sky high, and the civil rights movement was crush ed. so they started to look into it, and they found a lot of s--t! Heroin smuggling from the Golden Triangle since the Vietnom years from the Golden Tringle, organized by the CIA, and routed thru Corsica with CIA/Mafia ties. Cocain/Arms/Laundering/BCCI - Operation Watchtower in which daily flights of coke went one way, arm for the Contras went the other way, and Panama as the way station before offshore rigs like Zappata Oil saw to it the drugs came into the US. Bush family investments in Pannama include many luxery hotels that US forces were sent in to liberate when Noriega became uncontrollable. We are talking about a steady importation of drugs into this country for the last 30 years, headed by the same people that have brought to you the drug war, "just say no" and the siezing of personal property without charging of a crime. Do you begin to see a pattern here at all? Are you blind? Combine this information with what Cooper, Lazar, Hamilton, Lindemann and others are telling us about MANY different people that have witnessed aliens working side-by-side with scientists and military personel in underground facilities. Oh, you don't think such facilities exist? READ US Nes and World report about just 50 of these installations (out of 100's). You think Lazar is a hoaxter or government spook? Read what Lindemann has to say about the Antellope Valley, and the many witnesses around Edwards, China Lake, and Nellis that swear up and down that they have seen this stuff 30 floors or more underground. People that are construction workers that have been killed for seeing to much, or being too inquisitive. And corporate heads, on their death-beds, telling their children about what really goes on at Northrup under the earth. Put that all together with what independent psychics who do not even know of each other, say they are recieving from the "other side". Oh, you don't believe in ESP, telekinesis, or clarvoyance? Well, what do you think happens when you die? the Hindues, the Buddists, and even most Christians know about that! It's called the astral plane, eternity, and ultimatily, christ concious ness and reunion with the god-head. Come on you spiritual cretins, people have understood these things for thousands of years, and because you can split an atom, you think that there is no creator and you are individual gods that perish forever when you die? The Bible, if intelligently interpreted, without the dogma of 1000' s of years of demogogery thrown in, tells us there will be the final days. Well, volcanos erupting? Check, we have that. Earthquakes? Check, plenty of those too. It takes only a few short steps to get from where I'm at, to where some of the stories here about Nazi plots and martial law are not unbelievable in the least. I HOPE THEY DO NOT COME TO PASS, but it could happen. Take you heads out of the anal orifice. Our rights are being infringed upon in heretofor incomprehensable ways. The president is openly synical towards the congress and only deals with them if he has to. SDI is shaping up to the Space Domination Initiative, with the US controlling who can have access to space and who may not, including many things congress refused to fund! but they will have ASAT, ground strike capabilities, and more. And guess what, the bank bail-out is coming! None of the canadates will talk about it, but we have 100 's of failed banks, and we have another bail-out coming. A Wall-street anylist on PBS sez it's for sure. and he thinks we should just declare backruptcy as a nation right now, because it's going to happen either way, and we might as well get it over with! The sooner we start fresh, the less decay we will have to endure in the interum. So folks, all is not rosy in the world. You could be pennyless with the flip of a switch. Varouse scenarios say that the US could reissued the courancy at .10 on the dollar, and that prices would stay prety flat; then where would you be? No new car this year! Get mobile. Be ready to leave large cities. Get a plan together. You may not use it, but it couldn't hurt, and it just might help you through some major crisis to come. Jeff- Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7987 alt.conspiracy:17514 alt.activism:30713 sci.skeptic:28531 misc.headlines:23293 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush.talk.politics.guns Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!ftpbox!mothost!lmpsbbs!markr From: markr@mot.com (Mark) Subject: Re: A racist argument against handgun control legislation. Reply-To: markr@mcil.comm.mot.com Organization: MCIL Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1992 07:55:29 GMT Message-ID: <1992Aug6.075529.975@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> References: <1992Aug2.162931.26755@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> <1992Aug4.124014.15095@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> <1992Aug5.092544.25579@etek.chalmers.se> Sender: news@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com (Net News) Nntp-Posting-Host: 145.9.14.26 Lines: 34 In article <1992Aug5.092544.25579@etek.chalmers.se> lindq@etek.chalmers.se (Johan Lindqvist) writes: >markr@mot.com (Mark) writes: >|> >|> >>First of all, The question was why shouldn't LAW-ABIDING people own weapons. >|> >>Law-Abiding people don't murder people. (by definition) >|> >|> >|> As a matter of fact, my point is, Why should law-abiding people not be >|> allowed to own weapons ? >|> >|> Mark > >Because if (all) people own weapons, they become more widespread, also >among criminals. And are peple born criminals? No. They become criminals >by oppurtunity. Excuse me ? by opportunity ? You are seriously mistaken, people become criminals because of an inability to distinguish between right and wrong. Every one of us has had an opportunity to become a criminal and the vast majority of us have not succumbed to this opportunity. >And one important thing when committing a crime like >robbery, murder or rape is to be able to threat and harm the victim, which >is easily done with a gun. Conclution: >If guns are not so wide spread, criminals would have a hard time getting >them, and violent crimes would, hopefully, be reduced. Unfortunately, guns have been around a very long time and last a very long time that there is quite enough a supply of guns for criminals use. Mark Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Moon Activities?y Message-ID: <1992Aug6.130658.11727@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Date: 6 Aug 92 13:06:58 GMT References: <14026@mindlink.bc.ca> Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Reply-To: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 36 >Just to let people know there was an incident in the 11th century where several >monks in England saw a large explosion on the moon. It scared the crap out of >them and they thought the world was going to end. It could be very possible >that they witnessed a large alien ship crashing on the moon or more likely just >regular alien lunar activity. > no guns > Steve Macdonald WRONG!!!! The monks witnessed a meteor/astroid or small comet impact. There is a relatively new loking crater in the area that the monks reported the impact. I would have to do some research to get then name of the crater as I don't remember the name right now. Steve Food_for_the_Grays -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- | | | My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the | | universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own | | image to be servants of their human interests. | | | | -- George Santayana | | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11105 alt.alien.visitors:7989 sci.skeptic:28532 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Back Message-ID: <63498@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 92 06:26:03 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul29.185219.29352@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> <45868@shamash.cdc.com> <63079@cup.portal.com> <2379@israel.nysernet.org> <63292@cup.portal.com> <63361@cup.portal.com> <63388@cup.portal.com> <63465@cup.portal.com> Lines: 11 Dear Astral Travel Participants: I just got back from the Astral Convoy and I truely feel that I am not all here. Sometimes a part of me (some people call it the Spirit) continues to travel seperate from me but not to worry it will be back soon. I seem to have all sort of profound thoughts. Some of the results from others in the group are in also. I just got some information through another person from a conventional scientist by the name of Edward P. Gardner, Ph.D. Mr. Gardner believes that a person has 7 bodies and they are called the physical, astral, mental, emational, christed and soul. The first four are earth plane frequencies and the last three are universal cosmic frequencies. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gould!bcacciol@encore.com From: bcacciol@encore.com (B M Cacciola) Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Six In The News Again (Thanks, Awfully) Message-ID: <1992Aug6.123138.25716@encore.com> Keywords: Thanks. Sender: news@encore.com (News Reception) Nntp-Posting-Host: wizard.encore.com Reply-To: bcacciol@encore.com Organization: Encore Computer Corp., Fort Lauderdale FL References: <63496@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug5.143625.23178@engage.pko.dec.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1992 12:31:38 GMT Lines: 19 In article <63496@cup.portal.com>, Jeffrey_-_Papineau@cup.portal.com writes: > A lot of you kids have not been around long enough to be toilet trained > for more than a few years, so I'll give you a break while dad puts you > through school... >.......... > crime. Do you begin to see a pattern here at all? Are you blind? >.......... > ness and reunion with the god-head. Come on you spiritual cretins, people >.......... > the least. I HOPE THEY DO NOT COME TO PASS, but it could happen. Take you > heads out of the anal orifice. Our rights are being infringed upon in Gee, thanks, Jeff. I'm always more likely to maintain an open mind and listen to other people's points of view/opinions when there are insults embedded in their postings. Keep up the good work. bc remind me to get a portal account Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A question for John_-_Winston Message-ID: <63499@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 92 06:32:36 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <62918@cup.portal.com> <1992Jul31.072901.16965@rtfm.mlb.fl.us> <63382@cup.portal.com> Lines: 4 I have been informed that Multu posts 20k of information per day on a net that mainly comes from Europe. He talks about politics and the person explaining him to me seems to really like him. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!ai065 From: ai065@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Thomas Hill) Subject: NOTICE: Bigfoot/Sasquatch Sightings Request Message-ID: <1992Aug6.140149.11386@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns1.ins.cwru.edu Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 92 14:01:49 GMT Lines: 24 Our research group is currently investigating reports and sightings of the animal known as "Bigfoot" or "Sasquatch". If you or somebody you know has had such a sighting or come across what may be evidence supporting the existance of such an animal, please get in contact with us in one of the following formats: o Leave a private message in electronic mail. o Call Thomas Hill at 216-362-6529. o Or write: Thomas E. Hill 16124 Richard Dr. Brook Park, OH 44142 Contact with us can be totally anonymous if you wish. We are especially interested in Ohio sightings but are by no means limited to investigations in that state. Please, serious responses only. -- "A large creature about 7 1/2 to 8 foot tall. It was greyish black in color, and as it went away from me I seen the backside of it walking as a man would walk on it's hind legs."- Former Sheriff Oliver Potter, Vancouver, Washington The Cryptozoology Information Network. Want on our Email mailing list? Amiga! Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:7993 alt.conspiracy:17516 alt.activism:30718 sci.skeptic:28536 misc.headlines:23298 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.po Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!torn!maccs!mcshub!physun!bunker From: bunker@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Alex Bunker) Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug6.143155.25460@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> Sender: usenet@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca Nntp-Posting-Host: physun.physics.mcmaster.ca Organization: Dept. of Physics & Astronomy, McMaster University References: <1992Aug2.060950.29308@cbnewse.cb.att.com> <8B91oB1w165w@bluemoon.rn.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1992 14:31:55 GMT Lines: 17 In article <8B91oB1w165w@bluemoon.rn.com> garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) writes: >I personally don't believe in guns...I say this even though I used a toy >gun to commit a "crime"...However, when the government actually tries to >get away with stuff like this, and in my own personal case actually does >get away with it, I think about a statement a friend of mine made some >years ago...He said, "Guns made America free!"...You know something...He >was right... > Gary Stollman > > This is from > garys@bluemoon.rn.com >who doesn't have his (or her) own obnoxious signature yet In waht way are Canadians Germans UKers and Frenchman less "free" than americans. . Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11106 alt.alien.visitors:7994 sci.skeptic:28537 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Back Message-ID: Date: Thu, 06 Aug 92 14:35:24 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <63388@cup.portal.com> <63465@cup.portal.com> Lines: 28 In article <63465@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Humans: There has been a slight change in the names of the runner of the >third weekly Astral Convoy. The person whoes first name starts with the >letter D (D.) was then called R2D2 now wants to be called Bridgit because ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Holy masquerading androids Batman (TM) I didn't know R2D2 was celtic! and a deity to boot! >of her study of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table. So Bridgit >it will be. Oh yes, last week she informs me that she did see and entity >in her room and it wasn't the bogey man. Maybe it was Cu-Cuhlainn(sp) ? He was/is celtic too. >Don't laugh I just report the facts as they come in. :)'s for the humor impaired! Ithlial I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go, "What, was THAT?!" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!mips!darwin.sura.net!convex!convex!swarren From: swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Six In The News Again Sender: usenet@news.eng.convex.com (news access account) Message-ID: <1992Aug6.150936.19385@news.eng.convex.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1992 15:09:36 GMT References: <1992Aug5.143625.23178@engage.pko.dec.com> <63496@cup.portal.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: magnum.convex.com Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and not necessarily those of CONVEX. Lines: 29 In article <63496@cup.portal.com> Jeffrey_-_Papineau@cup.portal.com writes: >And guess what, the bank bail-out is coming! None of the canadates will >talk about it, but we have 100's of failed banks, and we have another >bail-out coming. Looks like we're already doing this. The Fed lowered interest rates but the banks didn't. They're making record profits right now. Everyone who is in major credit card debt is bailing them out. That is the Federal bank bailout program. What is astonishing to me is that many banks are in such bad shape that even this cash cow is not enough to keep them out of the red. As far as Nazi plots to arrest everyone, it's not going to happen unless a lot of other things happen first. Americans are too independant. There has to be a long-term focused propoganda campaign before a society like ours will buy into something like that (not saying we are immune - just that the bad guys have their work cut out for them if there really is some kind of conspiracy like this). Even Adolf Hitler was not able to just go out and arrest everyone he didn't like in the beginning. It took years for him to get Germany sufficiently dumbed-down to the point that he could accomplish the sweeping atrocities he was responsible for. -- _. --Steve ._||__ Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer Warren v\ *| ----------------------------------------------- V Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11107 alt.alien.visitors:7996 sci.skeptic:28540 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!rutgers!netnews.upenn.edu!grip.cis.upenn.edu!jmv From: jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Back Message-ID: <85465@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: 6 Aug 92 15:05:49 GMT References: <63498@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Followup-To: talk.religion.newage Organization: GRASP Lab Lines: 21 Nntp-Posting-Host: grip.cis.upenn.edu In article <63498@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > I just got some information through another person from a conventional > scientist by the name of Edward P. Gardner, Ph.D. Mr. Gardner believes that > a person has 7 bodies and they are called the > physical, astral, mental, emational, christed and soul. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 1,2,3,4,5,6. >The first four are earth > plane frequencies and the last three are universal cosmic frequencies. > John Winston. Conventionnal scientist ? Well, at least conventional scientist can count... up to 6. I guess the 7th body just fell off the last Astral Convoy !! John, stop INHALING. JM. Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!psuvax1!rutgers!ucla-cs!ucla-se!seashell!mitch From: mitch@seashell.seas.ucla.edu (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Abduction claims Message-ID: <7789@lee.SEAS.UCLA.EDU> Date: 6 Aug 92 16:02:04 GMT References: <1992Aug1.020831.16024@news2.cis.umn.edu> <1992Aug4.102026.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Sender: news@SEAS.UCLA.EDU Organization: Cyberdyne Systems Lines: 18 In article <1992Aug4.102026.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes: :If someone claims to be logical, let alone scientific, let alone some manner :of spokesperson (not for a group but for a *stance*) then we have the right :to demand mental clarity and, even more important, intellectual integrity. :When a person jumps immediately in with a pronouncement -- without thoughtful :consideration of pertinent evidence both pro and con -- then what we are :seeing is not so much an exercise of judgement as an exhibition of ego. Or, to paraphrase Monty Python, there is more to skepticism than the automatic gainsaying of unconventional ideas. -- DISCLAIMER: | Bob Mitchell "Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown | mitch@ea.ucla.edu "Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman | DOD#[classified] "Computers are ruining this country." --Al Bundy | 1987 VT700c Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Jeffrey_-_Papineau From: Jeffrey_-_Papineau@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Hatton: CIA or ET? Message-ID: <63507@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 92 09:22:48 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <63494@cup.portal.com> Lines: 7 Sorry, that was not Mr. Sutton that had replyed so elegantly, but Mr. Showen. Credit were it is due. I'll have to contact him personally, since it looks like he is my neighbor down the street... Jeff- ok Damn Portal! UI sucks. Netcom: 408 241-9760 ok Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!destroyer!fmsrl7!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <+xxm-8-@lynx.unm.edu> Date: Thu, 06 Aug 92 16:05:46 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <1992Aug5.174301.2719@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <63466@cup.portal.com> Lines: 47 In article <63466@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Ley People: Here's some more information from Shaari about Ley Lines >and the Nasca Lines.----So what is happening is that grids with their >{light} were brought from another dimension, from another universe, through >a black hole, was was waiting in position around the earth's orbit, and Hold just a sec. There are some pretty serious problems with putting decent sized black hole in earth orbit. According to a previous post of John's, it took 144x144x144 of these grids to cover the earth if I understand what you said. If I didn't it may be 144x144x144x144 of them. In the first case the grids are more than 10 km across, in the second they are about 1 km across. These dimensions correspond to a black hole of 100,000 or 1,000,000 times the mass of the earth. As long as these objects are farther than a few million miles from the earth they won't tear it apart straight away. Rather the the heating of the earth from the tides that such a massive object would cause in the crust would probably melt it. (A good example of this is Saturns moon, Enceladus, made mostly of water/water ice. Its interior is kept liquid via the tidal heating from its interaction with Saturn.) It was such a nice planet before it melted, darn. Another glaring problem is the fact that these masses are comparable to, or larger than the mass of the sun. In other words the orbits of every object in the solar system is going to get shot to hell. Good bye habitable planet. The last major problem is that black holes this small have very high field gradients. In other words parts of an object closer to the center experience a significantly higher gravitaional force than those farther away. This phenomenon occurs on scales much smaller than the size of the black hole. Thus objects that get too close (especially inside the event horizon) get pulled apart. I'd feel alot safer if these ETI's would keep their black holes away from us! Ithlial My opinions, mine, mine, mine! To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit eachother. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:8000 alt.conspiracy:17518 alt.activism:30725 sci.skeptic:28543 misc.headlines:23300 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.po Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!destroyer!fmsrl7!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: Date: Thu, 06 Aug 92 16:11:17 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <1992Aug2.060950.29308@cbnewse.cb.att.com> <8B91oB1w165w@bluemoon.rn.com> Lines: 19 In article <8B91oB1w165w@bluemoon.rn.com> garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) writes: >I personally don't believe in guns...I say this even though I used a toy ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yeah well I don't beleive in cars, so now I have to walk everywhere! :)'s for the humor impaired. Ithlial My opinions, mine, mine, mine! I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go, "What, was THAT?!" Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:8001 alt.paranormal:5603 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!tymix!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!csus.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Newsgroups: ba.seminars,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Viewing High Strangeness Material Message-ID: Date: 6 Aug 92 16:17:48 GMT References: <63493@cup.portal.com> Distribution: usa Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 27 In article <63493@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >In article >jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) writes: > >| [...] >| A private remote-viewing group of scientists and engineers is now accepting >| new members. If you are intellectually curious you will enjoy this unusual >| form of recreation. The material we will view includes well-substantiated >| [...] > >What is "remote-viewing"? I think you need to ask what is "private remote-viewing"? > >Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] It sounds like a group of peeping toms with telscopes. :) What is "intellectually curious"? Ithlial My opinions, mine, mine, mine! To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit eachother. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: Where are you ET? (was Re: Moon Activities?) Message-ID: <1992Aug6.140606.19606@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <139502.2A79E0E1@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <1992Aug5.092002.400@crc.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1992 14:06:06 GMT Lines: 41 In article <1992Aug5.092002.400@crc.ac.uk> sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) writes: [Content of Michael Corbin's message and Steve's response deleted] > >POSTSCRIPT: > >Around 90% of UFO reports can be explained after careful investigation >to be mis-identifications of man-made objects or of natural phenomena. I believe this is correct. Can anyone substantiate this? >Around six months ago, I posted inviting those people who felt that >the remaining 10% could be explained as being Flying Saucers (i.e >extraterrestrial spacecraft) to present their evidence. > >This generated zero response. Does this mean you guys have no >evidence? Here is another chance to present it. Maybe they were just shy. Just kidding... This whole thing is so volatile that in a lot of cases, I see people shying away from non believers. You may have presented the question that led people to think what you were really asking was: "Hey! stupid UFO/Alien believers, come make fool out of yourselves and give me some proof to this malarky so I can laugh at you even more because I will never believe it even if they land in my front yard and knock on my door." I am not saying you were inappropriate in your asking of the questions, I am just saying that they may of percieved you as being a "non believer no matter what". Try asking your question again. Make it sound like you want to believe. I bet you won't be able to read all the responses. > >Steve. Gregg. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!mips!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!est.enet.dec.com!randolph From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Subject: Re: K-2 Radio Transmission Message-ID: <1992Aug6.155726.2040@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <1992Aug4.012507.18984@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Aug4.204145.12816@news.unomaha.edu> <1992Aug5.162256.14549@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug5.172556.14834@acd4.acd.com> Date: 6 AUG 92 11:54:42 Lines: 8 In article <1992Aug5.172556.14834@acd4.acd.com>, gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes... >I have just received the K-2 Radio Transmission recording. Its on a 60 >Gregg. How about a summary? Anything worth hearing? -Tom R.randolph@est.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!mips!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu!wb9omc From: wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) Subject: Re: Guns and Skeptics Message-ID: Sender: news@noose.ecn.purdue.edu (USENET news) Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network References: <1992Jul31.212244.20376@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug4.091110@IASTATE.EDU> Date: 6 Aug 92 17:23:50 GMT Lines: 85 danwell@IASTATE.EDU (Daniel A Ashlock) writes: >In article , gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) >writes: >> Too many people have been brainwashed into believing that guns are bad >> and that guns cause crime. This simply isn't true. > Well, guns may not be bad but people are stupid. My understanding is that Which is the point - guns don't kill (by themselves), *people* do the killing (using the gun as an instrument....and if you ban the guns the killing will NOT stop....) People who are stupid are stupid ALL the time, not just when they have a gun in their hands. Said stupid people probably cause more deaths on the highway than they do with guns. They cause more accidental deaths in the home by means other than guns. Stupidity does NOT begin the minute that that person picks up a projectile firing device, not does it transfer by osmosis from that device. >Saying guns can protect you from crime, or oppression, is >equally stupid. Let's take your Tian-an-men square example and contrast it >with whats going on in Serbia and Bosnia. Lot-o-guns there: in the hands of >recently officialized citizen millitia. So your idea that guns have any >relation to freedom from opression, mayhem, etc. is just as bogus as the >assumption they cause it. BZZZZT! You neglected to mention that said officialized militia appears to have been put forth by persons who have a motive of racial and/or ethnic genocide; and it also appears that said militia *agrees* with said motive. On the other hand, the Chinese who were killed in the Square wanted FREEDOM, which has been proven to be a quantity worth fighting and risking dying for. Those are two EXTREMELY different things. The guns themselves do nothing until the persons who intend to use them actually pick them up. You can use a gun to *suppress* freedoms; you can use a gun to *obtain* freedoms. Either way it is a matter of MOTIVE. >The guns are pretty dammned irrelevant. There are counter examples >like the town in Florida that made gun ownership an all-but-civic-duty, and >prevented the south Florida crime spree from entering their town. Big whoop. >They still have a lot of problems related to the effects of the crime spree >on the reigional economy and politics. I doubt that the gun is too terribly irrelevant to the crooks (or anyone else for that matter) who suddenly find themselves being sighted moments before that hunk o' lead smashes through their skull or whatever other part. Nor is keeping crime OUT of your town irrelevent; certainly not to a person who might otherwise have been the victim of a violent crime. Yup, maybe the economics of crime still remains, but losing a little $$$$ is a hell of a lot less significant than losing (perhaps) your life. > The idea that anything other than informed, well educated citizens acting >on behalf of the common good can protect freedom is silly. Guns don't protect >freedom. People do. When you need a gun to protect yourself you've already >lost a great deal of freedom. Tell THAT to the guys who punted the British out of the soon- to-be USA in the latter part of the 1700's. THEIR guns regained lost freedom for us as in you and me. Had our forefathers NOT taken up arms against the Brits, the tyranny and opressions would have only gotten WORSE, not better. Intelligence and education alone is NOT enough to protect yourselves when some tyrants' lead starts flying..... > Govenment of, by, and for the people will do it. Guns only might and >the body count would be remarkable. For that matter, shooting at an opressive >government is stupid. I can make time bombs in my garage; these are much better >weapons against opression than guns. Time bombs aren't always useful for hitting a moving target at a couple hundred yards; or at least not with any sense of accuracy. A good sniper with a good rifle, on the other hand, can select individual targets of high value at long range and take them out. Your time bomb simply wipes out everything within a certain radius whether it has anything to do with the conflict or not. For every one scumbag your time bomb kills, it will probably also kill 1 + X civilians who just MIGHT be on YOUR side.....or would have been. Duane Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:8005 alt.conspiracy:17525 alt.activism:30742 sci.skeptic:28554 misc.headlines:23304 alt.politics.bush:1600 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sample.eng.ohio-state.edu!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu!wb9omc From: wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Subject: Re: guns and criminals Message-ID: Date: 6 Aug 92 17:47:47 GMT References: <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> <1992Aug4.015333.21023@s1.gov> Sender: news@noose.ecn.purdue.edu (USENET news) Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network Lines: 14 lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes: > And one should learn ways of self-defense using one's own >body, so one can deal with assailants not equipped with guns. This argument presumes, of course, that you actually see or hear said assailant before the knife sinks into you. Well, any assailant who attacks an unknown quantity without a reasonable amount of overwhelming force is an idiot and deserves anything that happens to him/her.... Duane Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: We have met the enemy and they are us. Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1992 18:36:04 GMT References: <3AUG199214163311@apsicc.aps.edu> <1992Aug4.192810.9808@acd4.acd.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 36 In article <1992Aug4.192810.9808@acd4.acd.com> gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes: > >Thanks Jim. Thats an angle I had not approached. So far I have just >a few facts on all this "abduction thing". > >#1: They have and probably are occuring. This points out the fact that I > do not believe the people are "just dreaming". I beleive the events > really did take place, at least in some cases. In others, it may just > be a dream. The abductions are taking place. People are being (of have > been) examined. Why do you call this a "fact"? Or are you just referring to your belief as the fact, i.e., "It is a fact that I believe this."? In the absence of ANY physical evidence of adbuctions the best you can say about them is that they are *claims* of abduction. Some people have scars, but scars don't tell you much about their origin and certainly say nothing about abductions. Some people claim to have had removed artifacts implanted by the aliens, but no one has ever produced one of these for study. (although several have claimed to). The sheer number of people making abduction claims means nothing --- millions of people claim to have, or to have had, personal contact with God (or the diety of their choice) but this doesn't offer much persuasive evidence that God (or the diety of their choice) exists or has the attributes they ascribe to . So the bottom line is that there's no evidence that abductions deserve the moniker "fact". ---peter Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!sunic!liuida!isy!isy.liu.se!stefang From: stefang@isy.liu.se (Stefan Gustavson) Subject: Re: Moon Activities?y Message-ID: Sender: news@isy.liu.se (Lord of the News) Organization: Dept of EE, University of Linkoping References: <14026@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 6 Aug 92 17:25:43 GMT Lines: 16 Steve_MacDonald@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve MacDonald) writes: >Just to let people know there was an incident in the 11th century where several >monks in England saw a large explosion on the moon. It scared the crap out of >them and they thought the world was going to end. It could be very possible >that they witnessed a large alien ship crashing on the moon or more likely just >regular alien lunar activity. > no guns > Steve Macdonald Or, even more likely, a meteorite crash on the moon. Sorry to point out the obvious. Didn't mean to spoil your fun. /Stefan G (stefang@isy.liu.se) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Outlaw guns from Aliens? Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1992 18:44:28 GMT References: <15lvo2INNnhh@agate.berkeley.edu> <1992Aug4.183305.12587@uwm.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Keywords: Aliens, Guns Lines: 18 angus@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Andrew Michael Vebber) writes: >Should Aliens from Outer Space have the right to bear arms? I dunno . . . how many arms did you have in mind? What if they're more like tentacles or something? The other night I was awakened by this huge multicolored flying saucer over my back yard and I ran out there with my shotgun and there was the "thing" with about 10 or 12 arms just descending from the bottom of the UFO. Well I got off a couple of blasts and he scooted up there and took off so fast I didn't have time to reload. Damn flying saucers, third time this week, too. Next time I'm gonna use something stronger than birdshot. ---peter Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11108 alt.alien.visitors:8009 sci.skeptic:28565 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Back Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1992 18:55:40 GMT References: <63388@cup.portal.com> <63465@cup.portal.com> <63498@cup.portal.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 12 In article <63498@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Astral Travel Participants: I just got back from the Astral Convoy >and I truely feel that I am not all here. Let's go with that thought, John . . . ---peter Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!decwrl!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!cc203 From: cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: RE: THE NATURE OF REALITY Message-ID: <1992Aug6.192042.2994@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Date: 6 Aug 92 19:20:42 GMT Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA) Lines: 188 Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns1.ins.cwru.edu I have been reading alt.alien.visitors for about two weeks now, and had been considering composing a posting when I came across the article on THE NATURE OF REALITY, and found a lot of the words had been taken right out of my mouth. For the past year I have been delving deeply into this subject. From the research I have done, I would highly recommend the following materials to anyone who is truly trying to understand it: Books: 1. Matrix II - see article 7932 for info 2. The Gulf Breeze Sightings - Ed Walters 3. UFO's - Above Top Secret - Timothy Goode 4. A Strange Harvest - Linda Moulton Howe (cattle mutilations, Gov't coverup) 5. Flying Saucers are Real - Maj Donald Keyhoe (Keyhoe resigned from Project Bluebook disgusted by what he saw to be an obvious coverup) Videos: 1. Crop Circle Communique - Linda Moulton Howe Productions Great aerial footage, compendium of threories, analysis, etc 2. A Strange Harvest - Linda Moulton Howe Productions 1983 documentary on cattle mutilations 3. Sightings - UFO's - originally broadcast on Fox Network Well done overview of entire subject - Includes interviews with Robert Lazar and George Knapp, an investigative reporter from Las Vegas. One thing I can say is that after studying these materials, attending UFO group meetings, and listening in person to abductee accounts, I find it impossible to dismiss the phenomenon. What makes this such a difficult area to clarify, however, is that the core truth is obscured from two sides. On one hand we have the Government/Air Force, who by concealing their own information and concocting lie after lie to feed to the public, have done an amazing job of deluding vast numbers of us into the comfortable conception that all UFO witnesses and contactees are lunatics. On the other side, the people who are trying to "cash in" on the phenomenon by building bogus ET cults and disseminating phoney stories and hoaxes, are no less guilty. When researching UFO's, one must always confront the question of "where does the truth stop and the slop begin?", because there's plenty of slop out there. The book Matrix II is a good example of this. Matrix II is a treasure trove of information, including newspaper clippings, historical reviews of the Roswell crash, Interviews, etc. Yet there is also what seems to be a good dose of nonsense thrown in - claims of huge underground tunnel networks under the U.S. populated by some subterranean intelligent species, claims that Bush and Gorbachev are robots, etc. Thus, even within a single book, one has to ask, where do you draw the line? All one has to do is read through alt.alien.visitors to find the same thing going on. One has to wade through all the stories of astral traveling with R2D2, personal attacks, and recipes for cooking greys to find the few really useful pieces of information. This forum has a great potential for sharing knowledge and coming to some kind of consensus on what is really going on, if people would only start treating it a little more seriously. So, for some serious discussion: 1. CATTLE MUTILATIONS One thing I haven't seen discussed here recently is cattle mutilations. A lot of the skeptics in this newsgroup constantly say there is no hard evidence, and in my view this is some of the hardest. It has been established that surgery is performed on these animals with a precision laser type intrument. Their rectums and sexual organs are usually removed, along with tounges, eyes, etc. The animals are found dead in a field with absolutely no tracks surrounding the bodies. There have been cases where the animal was seen alive only a few hours earlier. There have been eyewitness sightings of both unexplained lights and craft in the sky during nights preceeding the discoveries of the bodies, along with similar daylight sightings of saucer craft in the area. Two ranchers who staked out a feedlot where a rash of mutilations was occuring reported seeing two greys "float" into the feedlot in the middle of the night, at which point they left to get the local sherrif. When they returned the greys were gone, along with one of the cows. An abductee recalled under regression said that she had witnessed a calf being raised into a ship via a beam. The number of mutilation cases is now in the thousands, and they have been reported all over the world (someone in here asked why this in only occurring in the U.S. - it's not!). Over and over it is the same story. Of course there have been debunkers who point the finger at predators or cults, but these theories can not possibly explain the HARD EVIDENCE. Media coverage of mutilations peaked in the early eighties, but is now nearly non-existent, even though it is continuing to happen. 2. ABDUCTEE REGRESSION ACCOUNTS The following "explanations" have been proposed: a. Somehow, the hypnotist is planting the abduction memories. Response - Having seen videos of several actual sessions, and read transcripts of several more, I find it impossible to believe that this is the entire basis of the phenomenon. The detail that comes out of these people in response to a simple question, such as "what did they do to you", is incredible, consistent from case to case, and certainly beyond the imagination of many of them. They are not being fed this detail in any way whatsoever - common sense says it must be coming from elsewhere. I do however believe that an unprofessional hypnotists can plant or corrupt memories, and that this may be occurring, in a MINORITY of the cases. b. People are having mass hallucinations base on the movies "Close Encounters", "ET", etc. Come on! This is clearly a case of art imitating life, not vice versa. A great point someone made earlier is why don't people mass hallucinate "Alien" type creatures. Why not Freddy Krueger, or Superman for that matter? 3. CROP CIRCLES Cerologists, as they call themselves, are now fairly certain that they can distinguish "authentic" circles from hoaxes, of which there are plenty (Doug and Dave's are the most famous). The main feature is that the stalks of the crop are bent as if they were heated, and there is no cell damage! Circles have been found in "unbendable" plants. These plants would snap like celery if a human tried to bend them, but they were found bent at perfect 90 degree angles, again with no damage. Many of the formations have been found to contain within their designs precise mathematical ratios that correspond to the diatonic scale, and also contain proofs of various mathematical theorems (see cover story of Feb issue of Science News). Soil samples from circles contain trace radioactive isotopes not naturally found there. Again, lights and craft are commonly seen in the vicinity prior to circle discoveries. What do the skeptics say - "Oh it's weather, or it's people with boards and strings." Give me a break. 4. SIGHTINGS There have been so many sightings it would be impossible to catalog them. Many are by pilots, even astronomers. I highly recommend reading the book on the sightings at Gulf Breeze. FINALLY.....A WORD FROM THE "SANE".... So lets just close our eyes and try and think up an explanation for these things. Gee, what could it be? It can't be the obvious thing - ALIEN VISTORS - because we all KNOW that this just can't be. Our government tells us so, and most of us have personally never seen one, and nothing can possibly exist that we haven't personally seen. It must be that all these thousands of abductees, scientists, pilots and witnesses are crazy gullible boobs. Yeah, that's it! Thank God there's people like us, who know the absolute truth about everything, to set them straight. AND A WORD FROM THE REALLY SANE.... So lets just close our eyes and try and think up an explanation for these things. Gee, what could it be? It must be the obvious thing - ALIEN VISTORS - and they must be here to save the planet and the lady I met at the Psychic fair can talk to them and she says I am one of the ones who is going to get a spot on the ships when the world blows up in 1998, so I better send a bunch of money to this guy in France so he can build a building shaped like the craft that came and talked to him and now I understand that the Miller beer commercial is really an attempt by our Government to introduce us to them... AND A WORD FROM ME.... So lets just close our eyes and try and think up an explanation for these things. Gee, what could it be? It must be the obvious thing - ALIEN VISTORS - period. _________________________________________________________________ David Stepien Email : stepiend@rcwcl1.dnet.bp.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.activism:30747 alt.alien.visitors:8011 alt.conspiracy:17526 alt.politics.bush:1611 misc.headlines:23306 sci.skeptic:28567 talk.politics.guns:37641 Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.politics.bush,misc.headlines,sci.skeptic,talk.politics.guns Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!tcsi.com!iat.holonet.net!uupsi!psinntp!dg-rtp!leonardo!meyers From: meyers@leonardo.rtp.dg.com (Bill Meyers) Subject: Re: Outlaw guns? NO! Register guns! YES! (was: Re: UFO "October Message-ID: <1992Aug5.202150.19151@dg-rtp.dg.com> Sender: meyers@rtp.dg.com (Bill Meyers) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 92 20:21:50 GMT References: <26159@life.ai.mit.edu> <1992Aug3.212355.29676@ms.uky.edu> Organization: N/I Lines: 187 Hereby forwarded to the original newsgroups, as a courtesy from t.p.g. :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- In article veal@utkux1.utk.edu (David L. Veal) writes: >In article <1992Aug3.212355.29676@ms.uky.edu> uk09365@nx08.mik.uky.edu (robert i kesten) writes: > >>In article <26159@life.ai.mit.edu> elwin@ai.mit.edu (Lee Campbell) writes: >>> and USA TAKEOVER?!) >>> Keywords: >>> >>> In article , gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry >>Roston) writes: >>> - This does not belong here, but I will post it anyway... >>> - >>> - When you look at statistics related to crime, etc, you will find the >>> - following: >>> - 1-The US does have a slightly higher murder rate than other countries, >>> - although it is typically ranked between 5 and 10 on the list of >>> - countries with the highest murder rates. >>> - 2-If you remove from the statistics the large US urban regions of NYC, >>> - Washington DC, Detroit, you will find that the crime rate in the US is >>> - LOWER than many other countries in the world. >>> - 3-The above mentioned cities >>> - -have the most restricitve gun control laws in the country >>> - -have some of the worst "ghetto" neighborhoods >>> - >>> - CONCLUSION: Guns are not the cause of crime. There is absolutely NO >>> - evidence to even suggest a connection between gun ownership and crime. >>> - The problems in our country are economic problems. >>> >>> >>> BZZZZ! Sorry! Your conclusion goes too far! On the basis of the data >>> presented, you cannot conclude "there is absolutely NO evedence to >>> even suggest a connection between gun ownership and crime." Would you >>> care to try again? You can conclude something along the lines of >>> "In a country where someone can buy a few handguns a week in N. Carolina >>> and bring them up on the bus and sell them in N.Y., gun registration >>> laws and waiting periods that apply only in N.Y. state will not have >>> any noticible effect." >>> > The obvious, and oft mentioned, logical flaw in that argument is that >if guns are a primary source of violent crime in New York, and gun control >in New York is ineffective because guns can be bought elsewhere, then why >are those other places not suffering similar violent, and gun, crime rates? > > Further, why should, say, Virginia, which does not have the crime >problem that New York has, suffer under legislation for New York's problems? > >>> - Consider the maxim: If guns are outlawed, ony outlaws will have guns. >>> >>> Well said! Luckily, nobody is talking about outlawing guns. What we >>> are talking about is licenses, registrations, and waiting periods >>> before purchasing. We accept the concept of fishing licenses, clamming >>> licenses, driving licenses, etc. Please don't confuse licensing guns >>> with outlawing guns. > > In point of fact, you are absolutely incorrect. Off the top of my >head, I can think of NBC News head Micheal Gartner, who has publically called >for the repeal of the second amendment and banning of all hand guns (or is >the President of NBC news a fringe element lunatic?) What about Senator >Chafee, who introduced a bill in Congress to ban all handguns? Is *he* >a lunatic fringe element? Or Handgun Control Inc, the nationan's foremost >gun control lobbying group, which pushes for registration and waiting >periods, has *publically said* that these are just the first step in >*totally* outlawing private ownership of guns. > > Or the recent proposed Constitutional Amendment to repeal the >Second Amendment. Or the Washington D.C. city council which considered >using their registration lists to confiscate guns. When reminded they >had promised not to use them for that purpose. the sponsor of the >consfiscation move retorted, "Well, I didn't promise them anything!" > > Are *all* of these an example of *nobody* wanting to outlaw guns? > >>> >>> - However, all of this misses the main issue: >>> - A well-regulated militia, being necessary for a free state, the right >>> - of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. >>> >>> Too late! Did you know that to own a machine gun or other fully >>> automatic weapon, you need a special permit from the Bureau of >>> ATF, and the the Bureau reserves the right to inspect your weapon >>> yearly? We already accept these limitations on machine guns! The >>> question is, should we register handguns? Why don't you direct > > "Accept" is not entirely accurate. More along the lines of, >"We have no choice," but to accept. BTW, though, technically these >are not permits or licenes. Class III firearms are registered for the >purposes of taxation, not posession. Further, even with this gun- >control dream, in '86 they *stopped* allowing new registrations of >Class III firearms. That is, they wil not allow new Class III's >into circulation. This does not strike you as a step toward total >outlawing? > > If the system worked *so* well, (The only cases of criminal misuse >of legally owned Class III weapons have been commited by police officers) >why restrict them further if there is not another motive? > >[Commentary on reasoning behind Second Amendment deleted for space ...] > >>> >>> Well argued! However, you have completely missed the *true* debate. >>> The true debate is over handgun registration, manditory waiting >>> periods for handgun purchase, and elimination of "cop-killer" bullets. >>> Should we do any of these things? The NRA says "NO!" I say "YES!" to >>> all of them. > >Let's look at these one at a time: > >1 - Handgun Registration > > Firearm registration has been used as a precursor to total confiscation >in Germany, Jamaica, Greece, and a number of other countries. In the United >States, Washington D.C. almost used their lists for confiscation, and several >other places *have* done so. It happened in New York. > There is a long history of using registration lists for confiscation >of weapons, regardless of the promises of politicians against it. > >2 - Mandatory Waiting Periods > > California should be a waiting period dream. What started off as >a 24 hour "cooling off" period has been extended four times and now stands >at 15 days, with no impact on crime. > No criminological study has ever found that waiting periods reduce >"heat of passion," killings, or any other form of crime. In >contrast, California, in spite of its continuing gun law crusade, >continues to have record crime increases. > Further, a waiting period is not necessary for a background >check. If a police officer can check your criminal record and check for >outstanding warrants on you from his cruiser, why should a gun shop not >be able to conduct an similar instant check? Answer, they can. > Virtually all waiting periods suggested on a national level have >a discretionary aspect to them. That is, there is a way for local law >enforcement to indefinately extend the waiting period, often not allowing >for any sort of appeal on the part of the gun buyer. If the local police >chief doesn't want guns sold, guns don't get sold. This was a, and >continues to be, a major flaw in "The Brady Bill." > Finally, waiting periods can result in de-facto registration. The >Brady Bill required that a description of the gun, as well as a serial >number. For what possible reason would they need these if *not* for >registration. A check on the *individual* does not require information on >the weapon involved. > >2 - "Cop-Killer" bullets > > The "Cop-killer" (KTW) armor piercing bullet never has and doesn't. >It is probably one of the best examples of media manipulation against the NRA >you are likely to find. > The KTW bullet was originally designed for use by law-enforcement >and was *never* sold to the general public. No police officer was *ever* >killed by the KTW bullet. > Gun Control organizations said the teflon coated bullet was armor >piercing, and would penetrate police soft body armor. In fact, the teflon >coating was designed for increased penetration of hard, smooth surface >such as car windshields and doors, and actually had *reduced* penetration >of standard police bullet-proof vests. > The original legislation would have banned all ammunition which could >penetrate police soft body armor. Since this armor was designed to repel >handgun fire, it was less effective against rifle fire. Thus, the >legislation would have banned vitually *all* rifle ammuntion, because >those standard vests were not designed to repel it. > The NRA (you know, "rifle association") really had no choice but to >oppose it. It was an overly broad, poorly written piece of legislation >*designed* to force the NRA to oppose it. When the NRA did, they were >labeled has opposing the ban of evil "cop-killer" bullets. > What was never reported was that the final legislation was drafted with >the help of the NRA, and banned *only* the "cop-killer" bullet instead >of virtually *all* ammunition. > >>>If you, Gerry, want to enter into the real debate, then >>> perhaps you can argue why there should be no registration of handguns, >>> no waiting period to purchase them, and why we should continue to sell >>> copkiller bullets. > > See above. > >>> - Lee Campbell > > Where us this coming from? If Mr. Campbell does not read t.p.g >he probably won't see the replies to these messages. > >=========================================================================== >|David Veal PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu University of Tennessee | >| Division of Continuing Education | >=========================================================================== > Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:8012 alt.conspiracy:17531 alt.activism:30751 sci.skeptic:28569 misc.headlines:23314 alt.politics.bush:1618 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sample.eng.ohio-state.edu!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu!rjwade From: rjwade@rainbow.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert J. Wade) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug6.193850.11856@noose.ecn.purdue.edu> Date: 6 Aug 92 19:38:50 GMT References: <1992Jul31.011541.6582@bilver.uucp> <1992Aug3.033213.4155@anasaz> Sender: news@noose.ecn.purdue.edu (USENET news) Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network Lines: 26 In article <1992Aug3.033213.4155@anasaz> billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) writes: >In article wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) writes: >-> >->[gobbledeegook deleted] >-> >->That was, without a doubt, the biggest bunch of pure manure I have read >->ANYwhere on ANY newsgroup..... >-> >Actually, a second civil war in the United States isn't such a far fetched >idea. It's the rage the world around ane we certainly have as many regional >differences as counties that are breaking up now. There's a serious movement >in Alaska now calling for sessation and California would clearly be better >off without us. > >Look at LA. You had Koreans defending their stores at gun point and, a couple >of more nights, the skin heads would have come out. Sooner if a black gang >had decided to press the idea of movement into white neighboorhoods. So, >while I don't think it's a conspiracy, the ideas in this post weren't so >far off (except for the part about Bush/Quayle being in office next year.) > >\>Duane > > Bill Moore billy%anasaz.UUCP@asuvax.eas.asu.edu (602) 395-1732 >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - what was the original post on this invasion thing anyway? can someone email me the original or repost this alien invasion thing?? Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:8013 talk.religion.newage:11109 sci.skeptic:28572 Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!mips!mips!decwrl!bu.edu!wang!news From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Hatton: CIA or ET Message-ID: <2398@israel.nysernet.org> Date: 6 Aug 92 10:04:47 GMT References: <63423@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@wang.com Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs Lines: 7 Oh my! Fradulent channelers! How do we distinguish between the real thing and Brand X? -- /|/-\/-\ I'll leave you with this saying: |__/__/_/ Loni Anderson's hair should be LEGALIZED!! |warren@ / nysernet.org